Wolfgang Esslinger Posted May 4, 2011 Share #1 Posted May 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just learnt that about 1000 members wanted to be beta testers for M8/9. Impressive number indeed. Especially when taking into account that not all members were able to participate (assuming you needed to have either camera). Many people are prepared to offer their valuable time for the benefit of all M8/9 users - thank you for your help! When looking at these truly impressive results I just wonder why there was such a relatively low number of members (about 250?) participating in the LUF Charity book some time ago, also taking into account that for this book any Leica camera qualified. But then it is good to see that there seems to be something for everyone in this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Wolfgang Esslinger, Take a look here impressive number of potential beta testers. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
NB23 Posted May 7, 2011 Share #2 Posted May 7, 2011 Since you ask: I didn't participate in the book because I'm a chauvinist and didn't want my work to be judged and chosen by people who seem to operate on a country-club basis and whose taste I don't quite trust. And given that the general photographic standard is very low, there was no way for me to mix with that. As for being a beta tester, I didn't even know about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted May 7, 2011 Share #3 Posted May 7, 2011 Since you ask: I didn't participate in the book because I'm a chauvinist and didn't want my work to be judged and chosen by people who seem to operate on a country-club basis and whose taste I don't quite trust. I agree with this statement (minus the chauvinist). Interesting that all the Editors had their images included while nixing others. IMHO any of the people judging other peoples submissions should have been disqualified from having their own work included. Kind of like having a photography competition where you are the judge and making sure you receive a Blue Ribbon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted May 7, 2011 Share #4 Posted May 7, 2011 I agree with this statement (minus the chauvinist). Interesting that all the Editors had their images included while nixing others. IMHO any of the people judging other peoples submissions should have been disqualified from having their own work included. Kind of like having a photography competition where you are the judge and making sure you receive a Blue Ribbon. I have to take issue and indeed umbrage at these statements. All images were judged anonymously and section sub-editors were not allowed to vote for their own image no matter what section it was submitted in. Images therefore were included on their merit as images, not on their provenance. IIRC there was nothing to prevent any forum member asking to be considered as a sub-editor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 7, 2011 Share #5 Posted May 7, 2011 I agree with this statement (minus the chauvinist). Interesting that all the Editors had their images included while nixing others. IMHO any of the people judging other peoples submissions should have been disqualified from having their own work included. Kind of like having a photography competition where you are the judge and making sure you receive a Blue Ribbon. I don't know where you got this idea from. That is an outrageous, scurrilous statement, 100% incorrect, and extremely offensive to all of the people who committed huge amounts of their time, and own money, into the project. Two of the three people who did all the work on the actual book and who contributed three photos for selection, did not get any photos through the judging process. Judges were requested from the whole membership and came from all over the world and all the shots were judged anonymously. Please get your facts straight before casting aspersions. I believe that a public apology is in order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 7, 2011 Share #6 Posted May 7, 2011 Since you ask: I didn't participate in the book because I'm a chauvinist and didn't want my work to be judged and chosen by people who seem to operate on a country-club basis and whose taste I don't quite trust. And given that the general photographic standard is very low, there was no way for me to mix with that. As for being a beta tester, I didn't even know about it. Every forum member was sent a Newsletter asking for volunteers Your opinion on the standard of work of others, is of course valid, but I haven't heard one complaint about the standard if photography on the book. You obviously haven't seen it and it makes me question why you would want to remain a member of a community of which you have such a low opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 7, 2011 Share #7 Posted May 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since you ask: I didn't participate in the book because I'm a chauvinist and didn't want my work to be judged and chosen by people who seem to operate on a country-club basis... The only person who knew who had submitted the images was me as I coordinated the entries. In addition I offered to not participate in the voting process. So apart from my input the whole voting process was done anonymously. I most certainly did not choose images on the basis of who I knew, and no one else was able to anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 7, 2011 Share #8 Posted May 7, 2011 I agree with this statement (minus the chauvinist). Interesting that all the Editors had their images included while nixing others That is untrue. I would have to check the entries, but I don't think too many people had all of the entries included - regardless of whether they were editors or not. For the record I had none of mine included, which rather blows a hole in your theory that we were all slapping ourselves on the back and choosing each others photographs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted May 7, 2011 Share #9 Posted May 7, 2011 This is by way of a "meta-reply" to say that (IMHO) the outrageous statements made above are not worthy of a reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 7, 2011 Share #10 Posted May 7, 2011 Thanks John They ARE worthy of a reply as this complete falsehood might dissuade others from submitting photographs for consideration to the next charity book. Which would be a great loss, both to the book, the Forum and, most importantly, the charity concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted May 7, 2011 Share #11 Posted May 7, 2011 I'm sorry, evidently I am told that my statement has no factual basis whatsoever. I've been informed that absolutely none of the images that showed up in the book were submitted by anyone that was either judging or editing the images. Therefore, it was a completely impartial board of judges that led to the final selections. My mistake and apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 7, 2011 Share #12 Posted May 7, 2011 I've been informed that absolutely none of the images that showed up in the book were submitted by anyone that was either judging or editing the images. That's not true either. I don't know who has told you that. Judges were not allowed to vote FOR THEIR OWN photographs, but were allowed to submit and be judged. Please, get your facts straight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 7, 2011 Share #13 Posted May 7, 2011 I've been informed that absolutely none of the images that showed up in the book were submitted by anyone that was either judging or editing the images That's not true, and I suspect you know that too. For the record the editor's role was less than what was originally anticipated, and involved them selecting their favourite from their section, and writing a few words explaining why it was chosen. To repeat, apart from myself, _all_ the judging was anonymous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted May 7, 2011 Share #14 Posted May 7, 2011 Steve, When you write all the judging was anonymous does that mean the judges did not know the authorship of the submissions or does it mean that the judges were anonymous? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 7, 2011 Share #15 Posted May 7, 2011 When you write all the judging was anonymous does that mean the judges did not know the authorship of the submissions or does it mean that the judges were anonymous The judges didn't know who had taken the photographs. All they saw was the image, and the title of the image - and before anyone asks, there were no titles such as "A fantastic photo by Steve Unsworth, vote for me" <grin>. There were no equipment details shown at that stage either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted May 7, 2011 Share #16 Posted May 7, 2011 I agree with this statement (minus the chauvinist). Thanks for making me laugh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 7, 2011 Share #17 Posted May 7, 2011 Right. As originator of the book project, let me share with you some facts. 0n the 9th of October 2009 I floated the idea of a charity book. The last sentence of that post was "Let's show the world what we - and Leica - are capable of - are you in?" The project was far bigger than could be handled by a single person so volunteers were called for, and stepped forward - not just those who edited the chapters, but others who helped by hosting, managing relationships with AICR, Blurb and Leica,.managing the Gift Aid donations, proofreading, etc. It took that team nine months to bring the book to reality. Leica, AICR and Blurb marketing all played a part in publicising the book to the widest possible audience. Here are some statistics for you: 600+ entries 143 photos selected for the book taken by 101 photographers worldwide using 29 different models of camera of which 50% were digital and 50% film 40% were colour and 60% monochrome The most important statistic, however, is that this initiative has raised over twelve thousand pounds for Cancer research, and counting, through three main channels - the entry fees to have photos considered, the sales of the book and a donation by Leica of £2500 as part of their "Leica for AICR" social media campaign. I am sorely disappointed and personally insulted by the arrogant and small-souled sniping in this thread. I am particularly disappointed by the "ready-fire-aim" approach that treats facts as inconvenient irrelevancies. The Leica Forum Charity Book did something for people who have never heard of Leica and who need all the help they can get. Fact. If anyone wants to learn more of the facts, they can search here, on the Forum, or search for "Leica for AICR" on the Leica Blog. You can also go here and see the presentation that Andy and I delivered in the Blurb store in London last year, at Blurb's request. P.S. None of my photos made it into the book. They are on the back cover along with all the other entries. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 7, 2011 Share #18 Posted May 7, 2011 So sad, Bill, that your motives are questioned in this manner on a public forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 7, 2011 Share #19 Posted May 7, 2011 It was the motives of everyone who took part Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted May 7, 2011 Share #20 Posted May 7, 2011 Yes, thanks to all these beta testers that volunteered. I did not because I find the current firmware fits my needs. As for the book, I find that any photography book that has a brand name in its title is wrong by definition. Still I admire all the work done by the editors and it is great that it actually helped some people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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