andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #61 Posted April 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) The MP is shorter than the M7 as it uses the older shutter speed dial and doesn't need the extra height to clear the gearing that the M7 does. It's the same height as an M6 Classic, not an M6 TTL. It has the traditional rewind knob (unless you a-la-carte a later rewind crank) It has the mechanical shutter, which works at all speeds without batteries It has brass gears in lieu of steel ones in the M7 (although it will accept a Leicavit, which older Ms wouldn't) It is a completely different camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hi andybarton, Take a look here M6 or MP?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bill Posted April 14, 2011 Share #62 Posted April 14, 2011 I'll vouch for that. Sitting on the desk in front of me I have an M7 .85 and a MP4 .85. Two completely different beasts and "user experiences". Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 14, 2011 Share #63 Posted April 14, 2011 So if it has brass gears, what is Leica's official take on using a Motor-M on the MP? Is there anything, to take care of ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nei1 Posted April 14, 2011 Share #64 Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks Andy and Bill,.....Ive also read that the gears were changed to steel to allow the use of the motor winder,do both the M7 and MP allow this to be connected or is this another ``old wives tale``? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #65 Posted April 14, 2011 I have a motor on my M7, but won't put it onto my forthcoming MP. A Leicavit is less likely to damage an MP than a motor might. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted April 14, 2011 Share #66 Posted April 14, 2011 A Leicavit is less likely to damage an MP than a motor might. I'm not sure that's true. Both Leicavit and Motor-M couple to the camera in the same way and I doubt that the Leicavit turns the drive coupling at the bottom of the camera with any less torque. The Motor-M and MP have co-existed in the catalogue for nearly ten years. If there was any reason to suspect that the motor might damage the MP, Leica would have said so by now. I'm also very dubious about the claim that there is any substantial difference between the MP and M7 in terms of the material used for the gearing. I suspect that the MP might have an additional brass washer or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #67 Posted April 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) When mine arrives, I will do a "Norton" on it and see for myself. Or, maybe not At least with a Leicavit you can stop pulling if you feel something amiss... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted April 14, 2011 Share #68 Posted April 14, 2011 When mine arrives, I will do a "Norton" on it and see for myself. This is probably the closest I've seen to a 'Norton' for the MP and it supports your point (if we reasonably assume that the M7 has the same internal gears, etc. as the M6TTL used for the comparison). The fifth photo down does show a slight difference in the gearing - with the MP gears looking a little bit more 'brassy' than the M6TTL ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 14, 2011 Share #69 Posted April 14, 2011 I'm not sure that's true. Both Leicavit and Motor-M couple to the camera in the same way and I doubt that the Leicavit turns the drive coupling at the bottom of the camera with any less torque. The Motor-M and MP have co-existed in the catalogue for nearly ten years. If there was any reason to suspect that the motor might damage the MP, Leica would have said so by now. I'm also very dubious about the claim that there is any substantial difference between the MP and M7 in terms of the material used for the gearing. I suspect that the MP might have an additional brass washer or two. Thanks - I do love the Leicavit on the MP. It will not leave the camera, as I see it now as an essential accessory to it, giving both a better handling due to a higher body and the option, to wind the camera without taking it out of your face. It also can wind fast following continuous frames without upsetting reframing. As my Motor-M has been messing with my M6 and M7, leaving the M7 with a jammed shutter for repair, I am very reluctant, to try this at home with my MP. I loved the Motor-M before that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 14, 2011 Share #70 Posted April 14, 2011 Right. Bear with me. I am just having a cup of tea and a sit-down. I have just done something completely alien to me and opened the "in-struc-tion book" that came with my MP. There on page 109 it shows an MP with a motor-M attached and describes it in use. For the avoidance of doubt it shows the current version, and does not refer to earlier versions, their applicability or suitability. In any event, philosophically I cannot see putting a motorwind on an MP. Just because you can does not mean that you should... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted April 14, 2011 Share #71 Posted April 14, 2011 I feel a little like Alice falling down the rabbit hole when I read this thread. How can one reach the conclusion that using a Motor M on an MP will/may cause damage to the MP? Leica makes the Motor M for any of the M6, M6TTL, M7 and MP and as Posted even shows the Motor M in the brochure for the MP. I don't read any techincal or engineering justifcation for these Posts. Has anyone at least contacted Leica for a position? I have Motor M's that I use on my M7's with no problem at all. Shutters do jam on M7's with or without a Motor M. I use a Motor M on my M6 once in a while, no problems, I don't have an MP because it doesn't offer features I like. The MP dosen't take any better pictures than any other M. As for the comment "It also can wind fast following continuous frames without upsetting reframing." I vigorously disagree. I have a Leicavit that rarely gets used because it DOES upset the framing during use whether slow or fast. The Motor M allows the camera to just sit and take frame after frame with little motion except for the shutter button movement. EOT for me but I see no difference in using an M6 or MP if you want to take photographs. I even prefer the anodizing over the black paint!-Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nei1 Posted April 14, 2011 Share #72 Posted April 14, 2011 Therefore logically the MP also has steel gears.......no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #73 Posted April 14, 2011 Not necessarily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 14, 2011 Share #74 Posted April 14, 2011 This is why I made my point about earlier motors. The current motor is considerably less, shall we say, agricultural than previous incarnations. It is entirely conceivable that it is gentler on the gears - be they brass or steel - than the earlier model, thereby allowing a return to brass in the MP. What I do know is that it in terms of smoothness, of the bodies I own the M2 is streets ahead, then the MP and last the M7 but to be honest if I only had ever felt the M7 I would not be unhappy. Frankly I don't particularly care either way - I neither have a motor nor any desire to acquire one let alone put it anywhere near the pert bottom of my MP, but if anyone wants to set their minds at rest by emailing Solms CS and asking, feel free. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 14, 2011 Share #75 Posted April 14, 2011 I feel a little like Alice falling down the rabbit hole when I read this thread.How can one reach the conclusion that using a Motor M on an MP will/may cause damage to the MP? Leica makes the Motor M for any of the M6, M6TTL, M7 and MP and as Posted even shows the Motor M in the brochure for the MP. I don't read any techincal or engineering justifcation for these Posts. Has anyone at least contacted Leica for a position? I have Motor M's that I use on my M7's with no problem at all. Shutters do jam on M7's with or without a Motor M. I use a Motor M on my M6 once in a while, no problems, I don't have an MP because it doesn't offer features I like. The MP dosen't take any better pictures than any other M. As for the comment "It also can wind fast following continuous frames without upsetting reframing." I vigorously disagree. I have a Leicavit that rarely gets used because it DOES upset the framing during use whether slow or fast. The Motor M allows the camera to just sit and take frame after frame with little motion except for the shutter button movement. EOT for me but I see no difference in using an M6 or MP if you want to take photographs. I even prefer the anodizing over the black paint!-Dick I used a M7 without any hickups. I used my M6 a lot before that - without any hickups. Both cameras worked flawlessly. I bought a Motor-M (latest model). I love the motor-M for the same reasons, you might like it - it is great. Within a few days of using it, the shutter jammed on my M6 - I could fix it myself. The first occasion, I took the Motor-M over to the M7 - you guess it - the shutter jammed. I have to send the M7 in. I love the Leicavit on the MP. It does exactly what I described. yes, it will "upset the framing considerably more, than the Motor-M will do" (splitting hairs are we). I do not use the Motor-M on the MP, so this device falls through the net. The MP let's you take the same ordinary pictures, any other 35mm film camera can do. I like using it a bit more though. Just because Leica produces item X doesn't automatically mean, that it is supposed to work flawlessly with item Y, which is not explicitly described by Leica incompatible. The Motor-M does inherit issues, new users will learn about it in internet faq's, that are not advised by Leica. It is completely ok, to ask around for such on the internet, if unsure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #76 Posted April 14, 2011 I used to have a Leicavit, but traded it for the motor. I found that the camera would wobble around when using the spike, which it doesn't do when using the motor. I also wondered about taking the Leicavit on a plane - that spike is likely to get security sweating. In the UK, if they confiscate items at security, you never get them back, they keep no record of them and there is no compensation. It's true that the MP will not take any better photographs than any other film M. But sometimes the journey is just as important as the destination. I'm looking forward to receiving mine - I've just been advised that it could be here in 4 weeks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted April 14, 2011 Share #77 Posted April 14, 2011 the difference between brass and steel is that brass is moisture resistant -- it won't rust. it is the reason why boats of not so long ago used brass fittings (and mahogany for the same reason) . brass and steel are equally strong, or, i presume, equally strong given leica's specs to the manufacturer for each to handle a motor drive without damage. when you talk about an mp lasting forever, moisture will never damage the gearing in the mp.steel gears need some camera specified oil/grease to keep from getting oxidized. as for other things in the mp getting damaged from moisture over time, that's another story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted April 14, 2011 Share #78 Posted April 14, 2011 the difference between brass and steel is that brass is moisture resistant -- it won't rust. it is the reason why boats of not so long ago used brass fittings (and mahogany for the same reason) . brass and steel are equally strong, or, i presume, equally strong given leica's specs to the manufacturer for each to handle a motor drive without damage. when you talk about an mp lasting forever, moisture will never damage the gearing in the mp.steel gears need some camera specified oil/grease to keep from getting oxidized. as for other things in the mp getting damaged from moisture over time, that's another story. Donno about any of that I've stripped a M2 brass gears without a motor or baseplate winder, if you are clumsy (almost) anything is possible... Any way I thought the MP gears were of steel microfinished to be smoother then M7. Think the origonal MP from 50s also had steel gears... but if you strip the gears you just get them repaired... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 14, 2011 Share #79 Posted April 14, 2011 I have been doing a lot of googling this evening looking for a definitive answer to the "Do they or don't they?" question. The conclusion I have come to is that MPs do NOT have brass gears, but are assembled in such a way that they are smoother in operation than M7s. Puts makes no mention of brass gears, but does comment on the way that the gears are put together Leica MP: back to the roots! Puts says Gears and other moving parts have been improved by a new shape and surface treatment, which will increase the mean time before failure and enhances the smoothness of the operation. The current manufacturing procedures and assembly methods allow for a slight tolerance in the selection of matching parts and some users, when comparing the M6 or M7 with a finely tuned M3 will notice a certain roughness when transporting the film or pressing the two way shutter release. With the MP there is no such thing: all operations are extremely smooth and in direct comparison to my M3 even show improvements in smoothness and noise reduction. I checked several MP models and all were alike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted April 14, 2011 Share #80 Posted April 14, 2011 i was going by the direction of the thread's presumption that current mp has brass. all metal composites (brass and steel) can be produced with a slightly different formula to increase "hardness" or reduce it. i suspect that as motor drives became more common, leica spec'd out a harder gear to withstand the pressure. whether the mp has brass gears or not, i will leave to you guys. but if it is brass, it is just another reason to believe the mp will be working longer after we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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