M8 lens coding the official word

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Just recieved this and iknow we talked about it before but this is the official word on it.

 

Dear Leica friends,

 

Today we would like to inform you about:

 

__New 6-bit coding of Leica M system lenses for image optimization in connection with the planned digital camera model __Don’t miss LFI 5/2006, available now!

 

 

__New 6-bit coding of Leica M system lenses for image optimization in connection with the planned digital camera model

 

Leica Camera AG, Solms will be giving the lenses of the Leica rangefinder system a new code on the bayonet ring in future to enable the planned digital Leica M camera to recognize the lens type. The information on the lens that is being used helps the camera to optimize image quality. All lenses leaving the factory from July 1st, 2006 onwards will have the new coding, although they can still be fully used with the current analog cameras LEICA MP and LEICA M7 as well as classic models built after 1954. Lenses in the current range as well as many earlier models can be retrofitted at the cost of the owner to benefit from the image optimization in the camera. The lenses are compatible with the planned digital M camera even without retrofitting, except that the additional features cannot be used. The lens coding is called ‘6-bit coding‘ because six fields in the bayonet ring are marked in black or white to represent a number from 1 to 64 in binary code. The planned digital M came!

ra reads this information optically and can identify the lens on the basis of this code. Apart from the improvement in image quality, this information is also written into the EXIF image file. Lenses bought in the past will be converted at the request of the customer at the Customer Service of Leica Camera AG in Solms or the Leica agencies of other countries. Many of the lenses made from 1963 onwards can be converted.

 

Further information about the new 6-bit coding and lists with all lenses who can be retrofitted you can find in this pdf-document.

http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/msystem/objektive/index_e.html

[stunsworth]

I think this was part of the official Leica announcement, but it begs more questions than it answers. What do they mean by 'improve image quality'? Will this affect RAW and/or Jpeg? Will it prefix certain parameters in the RAW convertor?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Read PDF http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/content/pdf/objektive/18.pdf

 

 

Steve this was exactly what i was told on the lenses. First when you send in for the conversion , you actually get a whole new rear mount. It is far easier and faster for leica to just replace the mount and calibrate it than take the existing one off and engrave it and than paint the code. So bottom line is you get a new mount.

 

okay now my birdies have been dead on the money but here is the second part relayed to me. the coding does more than what leica says . It actually helps with white balancee , lens vignetting information passed on from each lens and of course the Exif data . so really the bottom line on it it seems the firmware holds all this data on every lens made and passes that on. Now does it pass that on for in camera jpeg processing only or does it pass that on for Raw processing also in the provided software which we don't know what it is first, so lets assume it does pass on the data for jpeg is almost a given for sure but raw i would assume yes in there software but here begs the next question I use C1 will that data tranfer to third party vendors , i would say no than it all maybe a moot point if not using there software. These are the answers we simply don't know yet and even what software it is . We will assume Jenoptiks software becuase that is the most logical choice. all i can say is we are getting bits and piece's of info and only time will tell to answer the question i just mentioned but i decided even though i am up to my eyeballs in DMR system , i am going for the M8 as well. i simply cannot resist this one. if it is equal to the DMR than we are worlds ahead and it maybe better

[leicamann]

So let me get this right..if folks are going to get the M8..you have to get "all "of your lenses coded?

 

This could also explain why the M8 body is not priced as high as people thought it would be?

 

 

Please clarify

[stunsworth]

Not at all John, all the lenses will work with the possible exception of the old 21mm. What _may_ happen is that the code will allow the camera and/or software to automatically compensate for light fall off in the lenses. Something that can be done manually if required.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

No John you do not have to have the lens modified at all they all will still work with the M8 just that you will not get Exif data and the other benefits of the code, so in essence that info will not be present but still very usable and really not a issue. Look at it as ROM on the R system it is just electronic data being passed from lens to camera

[marknorton]

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Take a look as the M7 ISO thread, there's a picture there of the new optical sensor they use to read the DX coding off the film canister. I expect that the sensor to read the lens will be a miniaturised version looking at the coding on the lens, through a slot in the lens mount which has a flush mounted (glass/polycarbonate) in-fill.

 

And how many bars are there on a film can? You've guessed it, 6!

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Mark there has been some debate on crop factor size and it seems official 1.33 which is a tad bigger than the DMR, so i would assume there was a touch more room to work the M. Most people don't know this but the DMR sensor is actually almost FF on the back in size but not all of it is sensor and the film rails are the issue on the DMR. So it looks like this is the DMR sensor which folks is a good thing trust me on this one.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

i don't want to OT my own thread but what the heck. there is so much rumbling on this crop factor issue that i have to laugh a little. I was a confirmed dead in the wool FF shooter with my canons and when i went to the DMR with the 1.37 i thought this is gonna be a really bad thing to deal with. In reality it really is not a issue at all just need to think a little different and really the only bad part is the very wide end of it and than if you have a 15mm all is well. i understand folks points on this and don't disagree on most of it but honestly it is not as bad as you think and it is just another adjustment to make. I would love a FF DMR don't get me wrong but i am NOT going to wait for one like some folks i hear say i will wait for one. WHY you can be shooting now and be creating great images and when it does come than deal with it. Since when does photography come without a few comprimises. Every system has something to deal with.

[skimmel]

Having gone to the 1.3 crop route with a DSLR, I agree that wasn't a huge issue, but I didn't have a lot of lenses at the time.

 

My main concern is that I just recently got a 35mm 1.4 from my M7 and have fallen in love with it. (I grew up on 50 mm with my first SLR 25 years ago and have been using a 50 mm with my M7, but, man, do I like the 35!)

 

I also like fast lenses (do a lot of available light shooting) and narrow DOF.

 

So, with a 1.33, the closest I can get to 35mm in full frame equivalent is a 28 mm f 2.0 but then I lose the 1.4 f-stop (or am I missing an option here)? Also, if I can afford an M8 (remains to be seen), I certainly can't afford another lens (even with selling my 35 mm).

 

What are others' thoughts on covering the 35mm-equivalent with the M8?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Actually this maybe the biggest issue of all and that is speedy lens that are wider to compensate for the crop. So yes they will probably address that and hopefully more usable higher ISO' than the DMR which at 800 is starting to be noticable. if they can pull out ISO 800 noise free that would be a big help and given there second real version in digital I am betting they will because many folks that shoot the M are doing reportage stuff in low light

[ptomsu]

So Guy, what is the final conclusion for now other than the firmware in the M8 will correct flaws in the lenses? These flaws might be minimal compared to flaws of other vendors, but I am sure they will together with the firmware be almost eliminated. Reminds me on the APO correction SW in the H1/H2 Hasselblad backs. This is actually a great idea, because instead to expensively correct each lense you can manufacture them cheaper and do correction later on in SW. This will work for sure but only to a certain degree.

[ho_co]

...all the lenses will work with the possible exception of the old 21mm...

 

I'd add a couple more likely toss-outs:

 

I doubt that the 15/8 Hologon will fit, also have my doubts about the earliest, non-retrofocal, pre-M5 28/2.8 Elmarit.

 

And adjustments may be needed for early retractable lenses, as was the case for the CL and M5, e.g. application of something like Dymo tape to limit the distance the lens can be pressed into the body.

 

Just a guess.

 

--HC

[ho_co]

Thanks for the information, Guy.

 

And Mark, I was wrong.

 

Here Leica has specifically said that the zebra code will serve for EXIF info but also for image optimization, an idea I had earlier rejected.

 

I'm glad for your imagination and forethought!

 

Keep it up, and I'll listen!

 

 

--HC

[skimmel]

Actually this maybe the biggest issue of all and that is speedy lens that are wider to compensate for the crop. So yes they will probably address that and hopefully more usable higher ISO' than the DMR which at 800 is starting to be noticable. if they can pull out ISO 800 noise free that would be a big help and given there second real version in digital I am betting they will because many folks that shoot the M are doing reportage stuff in low light

 

I agree, usable ISO 800 would be very helpful. Would be great as well to have a fast wide angle but how feasible is it to design a 28mm (or 26mm to be more like 35mm at full frame) with a max aperature of 1.4?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Expensive but can be done

[Guest guy_mancuso]

So Guy, what is the final conclusion for now other than the firmware in the M8 will correct flaws in the lenses? These flaws might be minimal compared to flaws of other vendors, but I am sure they will together with the firmware be almost eliminated. Reminds me on the APO correction SW in the H1/H2 Hasselblad backs. This is actually a great idea, because instead to expensively correct each lense you can manufacture them cheaper and do correction later on in SW. This will work for sure but only to a certain degree.

 

 

Peter . Excellent question and that is another one of those big secrets . it really depends on who is doing the firmware and what lengths they are going to go to pass the info from all of the lens groups. I look at it like this , we all know these are the best lenses in the world so that is a given and how bad can they really be. Vignetting i can see and that is corrected today with programs like ACR in PS so that maybe very easy to pass on and same with WB each lens category , let's say for the sake of arguement all the 24mm are running at 200 plus kelvin. Than they can pass that info on too. Than we have to look at software for the raws and how much of that info will be passed on , if any. Honestly i really think the coding is nice too have but if your shooting raw and processing i normally WB everything anyway. So it may buy some ease in shooting but for folks that shoot raw and know how too raw process all we really care about is a good file to work with.