Christoph13 Posted January 10, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 10, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all this is my first post here although I have been reading a lot during the last months. I own and use SLRs (Canon) with various lenses ranging from 20 to 400mm. Most of this equipment was obtained around 15 years ago when I was still using film and did not mind lugging around a tripod along with a backpack full of equipment. However, my photographic style has changed over time and not all of this equipment sees equal amount of use these days. While previously my preferred subject was wildlife and macro, the same lenses now take portraits of my family and accompany me when I am traveling. I find myself borrowing my wife's Panasonic LX3 when I want to travel light and honestly, the picture quality is quite decent. It is not a coincidence that my long-standing attraction towards the Leica rangefinder series is at a peak again. There are two things I am unsure about. 1) The first is whether to get an M8 used or go for an M9 straight away. I am leaning towards the first and upgrade to a full-frame model later if I find the rangefinder solution should meet my needs. 2) Anticipating an upcoming move from a crop sensor to a full frame, the lens selection should make sense in either environment. It might be useful to know that I have a slight preference for longer focal lengths and large apertures. My funds are not limitless (see above re family...). I will most likely start with a used M8 and a single lens. But picking this is less easy than I thought, mostly because I am unsure if eventually I will end up with two or three lenses. Top candidates are 28/35 or 50 - not terribly original, I guess, but which one it will be depends on the final array. A two lens strategy might consist of the 28, alternatively 35 Summicron and 75 Summicron. Three lenses maybe: 24 (haven't decided yet which one), 50 Summilux and 90 Summicron. Any thoughts? But keep in mind that it might take me years to collect these, if it happens at all so even an incomplete collection should make sense. Thank you in advance Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Christoph13, Take a look here Two-lens or three-lens strategy?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
freusen Posted January 10, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Chris, If you buy a M8 or M8.2 you need wider lenses because of the crop-factor of 1.33x. The 28-50mm is the classic combo, but I prefer a 28-35-50mm lensset. According to some people the view angles of the 35mm and 50mm are to close to each other. I don't agree with that opinion because the 35mm lens covers twice the area of a 50mm lens and the 28mm lens covers three times the area of the 50mm lens. It’s a matter of personal taste and depends on how many lenses you are willing to buy in the near future. If you want only two lenses buy the 28mm and 50mm Summicrons. If you like WIDE and have plans to buy a 21 or 24mm later, buy the 35mm Summicron. lens specs: focal length hor. view angle vert. view angle % area 28 mm | 65.5° | 46.4° | 319% 35 mm | 54.4° | 37.9° | 204% 50 mm | 39.6° | 27.0° | 100% ------------------------------------------------------------ FrankR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 11, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 11, 2011 It makes sense to start with an M8 because there's less money involved if you subsequently decide you don't like rangefinders. For a one-lens outfit with an M8 I feel the best focal length is 28mm or 35mm. For me, 35mm has the edge because (a) there's a wider choice of affordable lenses, especially lenses faster than f/2.8 and ( if/when I get a full-frame digital M I prefer the 35mm field of view. The 35mm can then be supplemented with something wider (24mm or 21mm) and/or something longer (which for me is 75mm on the M8 and 90mm full frame). That's a three-lens strategy: one standard, one wide, one longer. A two-lens strategy is necessarily either one standard and one that is wider or longer, or else one wider-than-standard and one longer than standard. For myself, I'd want the latter, e.g. 24 and 75 on the M8, or 35 and 90 on full frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 11, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 11, 2011 These are getting old now, and I have rolled them out many times, but the information is still accurate and useful in these circumstances: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards, Bill ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/141414-two-lens-or-three-lens-strategy/?do=findComment&comment=1554997'>More sharing options...
archi4 Posted January 11, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 11, 2011 What focal length pictures taken with your Canon (full frame film) do you find you would want to take now and what focal length did you use most with the LX3? I found that I used 35mm most on my film Leica's, so when I bought my first M8 I got a 28mm. Now, with my M9 I am back to the 35mm + 90 mm as I used for years with my film cameras and my other lenses are used much less Your photography will determine the lens you need Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 11, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 11, 2011 The two lenses I carry around with my M8 most often are 28mm and 50mm. If I wanted to take one of those it would be the 28mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted January 11, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 11, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... whether to get an M8 used or go for an M9 straight away. I am leaning towards the first and upgrade to a full-frame model later if I find the rangefinder solution should meet my needs. A year ago, I was in the same boat as you are now. I decided to go for the M9 right away even though I wasn't fully sure if I will like it. No regrets. Imagine you've bought an M8. If you don't like it then you will lose money getting rid of it. If you like it then you will lose money in the upgrade process. Imagine you've bought an M9. If you don't like it then you will lose money getting rid of it. If you like it then you will be a happy camper from day one. Regarding the number of lenses—it's not two or three. The real question is: One lens or more than one? Once you started switching lenses, it doesn't make any difference whether you're switching between two or three ... except three will cost more than two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 11, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 11, 2011 RE: reasons for picking the M9 over the M8 - you will need wider than about "24mm", or you will need wider than "28mm" and reasonable lens speed (f/2.8 or faster). If an 18 f/3.8 cropped to "24mm", a 21f/2.8 or f/1.4 cropped to "28mm" or a 16-18-21 f/4 cropped to "21-24-28" will suit your needs (at ISO 1250), the M8 will be OK. And let's face it, an M8 is going to be 1/3rd the price of an M9, freeing up $4,000/€3000 for your lens budget. (I switched to the M9 because I did need 21 f/2.8 and 35 f/1.4 and the extra 8 Mpixels - but not everyone is me.) RE: lens choices "I have a slight preference for longer focal lengths and large apertures." Bear in mind that long and fast is not the forte of rangefinders. Focusing becomes problematic above 50mm f/1.4-75 f/2 (yes, it can be done - it just gets a lot harder) - and with something like the 90 f/2, you are getting very close to the size/weight of a equivalent SLR lens (a 90 f/2 lens has to have a certain size to accomodate both the aperture and focal length). IMHO - if you are pretty certain of the M8, I would recommend a 50 f/2 or f/1.4 ("70mm" equivalent - since Leica's 50s are really 52mm or thereabouts) and a 24 f/2.8 ("32mm" equivalent - does not require any accesory finder) for a start. There is a 24 f/1.4 - but not for limited budgets For a third lens, you could try out a 90 f/2.8 (most are more on the Leica M size-scale than the f/2s) and see how focusing goes for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 11, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 11, 2011 Hi all .... It is not a coincidence that my long-standing attraction towards the Leica rangefinder series is at a peak again. There are two things I am unsure about. 1) The first is whether to get an M8 used or go for an M9 straight away. I am leaning towards the first and upgrade to a full-frame model later if I find the rangefinder solution should meet my needs. 2) Anticipating an upcoming move from a crop sensor to a full frame, the lens selection should make sense in either environment. It might be useful to know that I have a slight preference for longer focal lengths and large apertures. My funds are not limitless (see above re family...). I will most likely start with a used M8 and a single lens. But picking this is less easy than I thought, mostly because I am unsure if eventually I will end up with two or three lenses. Top candidates are 28/35 or 50 - not terribly original, I guess, but which one it will be depends on the final array. A two lens strategy might consist of the 28, alternatively 35 Summicron and 75 Summicron. Three lenses maybe: 24 (haven't decided yet which one), 50 Summilux and 90 Summicron. Any thoughts? But keep in mind that it might take me years to collect these, if it happens at all so even an incomplete collection should make sense. Thank you in advance Chris Welcome to the forum, Chris. Go for an M8 to prove your need. With the crop factor in mind, I would suggest a 28 and 50 with the latter a Summicron. (Summiluxes are nigh impossible to buy new because of long global shortages.) For three, add a 75 and consider a Summarit; excellent performance, quite fast enough, available and affordable. (Effectively: 37, 67 and 100mm) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph13 Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted January 11, 2011 All good points, many thanks for taking the time and sharing your knowledge with me. I am sure there are more readers frequenting this forum who are in a similar situation and will appreciate your input just as much as I do. I have indeed considered going straight to the M9 in order to avoid upgrading to the M9 later. But the M8 has dropped already in price whereas the M9 soars and has a loss of value still ahead of her, hence the potential future loss of value is much greater in the M9. Also, I consider lenses a much more long-lasting investment. After all, how long will it be until the 50 Summilux will be superseded like the M9 will be when the M10 eventually comes out? All this assuming that there will be no major changes such as autofocus etc that will require buying a new set of lenses but if there is one manufacturer I do not anticipate doing that it is Leica. So, given that my funds are somewhat limited I'd much rather invest in the lenses first and camera second than vice versa. Also, I am leaning towards making my choice of lenses based on the field of view on full frame and live with the fact that on the M8 it will appear a third longer. Which ones these will be is a little hard to determine since I have been using a crop camera (1.6x) for the last four years or so. Also, from my very limited experience of handling an M8 with 35mm and 75mm lenses it seems to me as though the preferred distance between the subject and the camera depends on more variables, not just the crop factor. It certainly made me feel less uneasy getting closer to the person I was taking a portrait of (and I suppose this sentiment was shared by the subject) with the small 75 Summarit than using the comparatively huge 70-200/2.8 that I normally use. The tulip-type lens hood of this SLR zoom lens is larger than the entire Summarit including its hood! While optically there is nothing wrong with the Canon zoom, moving towards the tiny Leica lenses must be a liberating move, especially when traveling. 50mm is unlikely to be the longest lens I end up using, so 75 or 90 are definitely of interest, even though it will not be the first lens. How hard is judging focus accuracy in the longer lenses? Is the 90 noticeably harder than the 75? Thanks all around, your help is much appreciated! Chris PS: the last replies came in while I was typing mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 11, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 11, 2011 I subscribe to the 7 lens strategy. From 21 to 135, excluding the 24 and adding the 40. Of those lenses the ones I use the most are the 21, 28/35 (interchangeable for me), 50 and 75. That is on a M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 11, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 11, 2011 How hard is judging focus accuracy in the longer lenses? Is the 90 noticeably harder than the 75? Yes, a bit - but it usually only matters at wide apertures, say f/2.8 and wider. On the other hand, the viewfinders only show little "corners" for the 75mm field of view, compared with decent framelines for 90mm, so framing is usually easier with a 90mm. On the standard M8 the 75mm "framelines" are also particularly inaccurate - but the 90mm frame is pretty small. Compromises, compromises... All in all, in the M8, I'm happier with 75mm (equivalent to 100mm on full frame) than with 90mm (120mm equivalent) - but if/when I get a M9 I'm sure that 75mm will go back to feeling like a pointless compromise and I'll want a 90mm again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoshutter Posted January 11, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 11, 2011 There is no 40mm Leica lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramosa Posted January 12, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 12, 2011 I'd recommend that you start with an M8, so you figure out if you like a digital RF. I did. I love and digital RF--and I am still very satisfied with my M8. (I do not pine for an M9.) For two lenses on an M8, I'd recommend a 28 and 50. For three lenses on an M8, I'd recommend that you add something wider (e.g., 18 or 21) or something longer (e.g., 75-90). That decision really relates to how you personally see and shoot. In my case, I had a 28 and 50 and then added an 18. That was a mistake (for how I personally shoot). Subsequently, I added an 80--and later sold the 18. While I can see that value of having a 35, I think--for a three-lens kit--28, 35 and 50 are too close in focal length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezc203 Posted January 12, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 12, 2011 There is no 40mm Leica lens. My 40mm Summicron-C f/2.0 would beg to differ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezc203 Posted January 12, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 12, 2011 With anticipation of eventually going FF (which is how I constructed my lens selections for my M8) I would suggest the following: 24mm and 50mm 24mm is effectively a 32mm on the M8's cropped sensor - making it a great walk-around, everyday lens. 50mm becomes 67mm - making it a good option for portraits. I know you mentioned you have an affinity for longer lenses, in which case, instead of the 50mm go for a 75/90? 75mm becomes 100mm and 90mm becomes a 120mm. So pick your poison there. My two most used lenses on my M8 (the two that I usually ALWAYS have with me) are the 24mm 'Lux (possible THE BEST lens for the M8 (if you can live with the size) and 90mm 'Cron which gives me the reach I need for situations where I cannot get close to. And because read words is never as fun as looking at photos, here are some to "persuade" you that my favorites are the way to go. The first two are with the 24 Lux and the latter two are with the 90 Cron pre-AA. Hope this helps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 12, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 12, 2011 If you have access to a reputable Leica dealer with decent stock, I suggest you check out an M8 with a few lenses. You can also use the frame preview lever to check alternative fields of view (this will also be helpful even after you buy an M). Based on what you've said about preferred longer focal lengths, I think you might be happy with a 50 on an M8 to start (near 70 equivalent FOV). The frame lines are easy to see and use, unlike the 75 lines IMO. The 50's will also be relatively compact. (My preferred lens on the M8.2 is the 28, but that shouldn't matter to you.) The M8.2 is a bit more evolved than the M8, has been holding value, and is more economic than getting an M8 and later fully upgrading. You might consider it as an alternative if you can live with max 4000th speed (as in the M9). A good dealer, even if not local, will carry a selection of used lenses if you want to minimize your initial expense. Start with one lens. The rest will become evident, including whether or not you like the rangefinder experience. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph13 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted January 12, 2011 It makes sense to start with an M8 because there's less money involved if you subsequently decide you don't like rangefinders. For a one-lens outfit with an M8 I feel the best focal length is 28mm or 35mm. For me, 35mm has the edge because (a) there's a wider choice of affordable lenses, especially lenses faster than f/2.8 and ( if/when I get a full-frame digital M I prefer the 35mm field of view. Good point, I was devastated when I studied the price list. I'll certainly be able to offset some of the cost by selling some SLR lenses I don't need any more but crikey, three grand for a 28mm... Though I am beginning to get the feeling that I can plan ahead as much as I want, the first lens I shall acquire will be determined by availability to no small degree. Several official Leica dealers I contacted replied that they are out of stock, second hand AND new and a waiting list as long as the proverbial arm. The 35mm can then be supplemented with something wider (24mm or 21mm) and/or something longer (which for me is 75mm on the M8 and 90mm full frame). That's a three-lens strategy: one standard, one wide, one longer. A two-lens strategy is necessarily either one standard and one that is wider or longer, or else one wider-than-standard and one longer than standard. For myself, I'd want the latter, e.g. 24 and 75 on the M8, or 35 and 90 on full frame. I'll probably be forced to see what is going to be available and go from there. I'll have to gather some more first-hand experience. Although I am learning a lot when studying example photos on the net and here in this forum, nothing can substitute a photo session with some candidate lenses. Sometimes it is surprisingly easy to pick a personal favorite amongst what appeared to be close contenders on paper. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph13 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted January 12, 2011 These are getting old now, and I have rolled them out many times, but the information is still accurate and useful in these circumstances: Hi Bill many thanks for compiling this information. There are some lenses missing, e.g. 24/1.4, 21/1.4, MATE etc but no harm done, they are out of reach for me anyway Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph13 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted January 12, 2011 What focal length pictures taken with your Canon (full frame film) do you find you would want to take now and what focal length did you use most with the LX3?I found that I used 35mm most on my film Leica's, so when I bought my first M8 I got a 28mm. Now, with my M9 I am back to the 35mm + 90 mm as I used for years with my film cameras and my other lenses are used much less Your photography will determine the lens you need Very interesting. As stated above I'll resist my urge to fall for the 90 because I'd want to find out if the intimacy for lack of a better word of M-style shooting would let me get closer to the subject than when using much more voluminous and intimidating SLR zoom lenses. Maybe it does not matter much but maybe I will find that my tendency to resort to longer lenses is at least in part influenced by my desire to disturb the scene as little as possible and that this can be achieved with shorter focal lengths with a rangefinder. What is your experience? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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