phancj Posted January 13, 2011 Share #21  Posted January 13, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry, but IMHO, a DLux5 is not a "real" Leica. It's a real Panasonic. If the shutter lag on the DLux5 is anything like that on my wife's DLux3, then that's just not good enough. And yes, I have test driven an X1 with a view to buying one. I didn't.  If you are used to the shutter lag on an M2, an M7, an R8, or a Nikon D700 with Leica lenses (as I am) for example, then the lag on any compact camera really isn't good enough. Tne above cameras, to all intents and purposes, have no lag AT ALL. Push the button and the camera takes the photograph - when you want it to, not when the camera itself feels like it.  The lag is reduced if the compact is set to manual focus, but that partly defeats the object of having such a camera.  YMMV.  Andy,  I was kidding, I knew dlux5 is made by panasonic.  As for M, maybe I havent "got it" but IMO manual focus isnt fast by any means either. It takes time & loads of experience which I am sure you guy with decades of shooting Ms have, but I dont, and many dont either. Tried the M8 & M9 and whilst I like the two cameras and the images they produce, I do not see myself as being fast by any means, not by a mile. if the lighting is dim, or longer lenses involved, or lack of details to ascertain whether the two images have coincided it can be trying...I am not saying there can be no one who can be armed with an M and be really fast, but I am saying without years of shooting M it can be slow. Really slow in certain instances.  I quote the example of me shooting almost 200 different shots with different people, horses, buildings, etc in a crowded India street market. All done under an hour (recall it was about 40+minutes) with the X1. I know for certain I wont be able to duplicate these number of shots on an M9. Thats an absolute certainty for me. But I know some of you can, but not too many for sure. Or you may snide at me and say thats not the way to take photos. But it was certainly fun for me that day and I will cherish it. It reminded me of the canon eos500 TV ad I recall. I was followed by a string of kids...laughing and having fun with the local crowd with the X1, shooting them in succession, showing them quickly on the LCD, and this went on by then I have shot almost all the street vendors, kids, etc,etc the experience was intense, very casual, it was almost like me merging with the local crowd and having a real blast. At the end of it I had a few hundred more friends.  I have shot film on Nikon, but mostly for product shots so very deliberate and all MF. I have also used AF film cameras. With my background the X1 will be faster for me coz it has AF, slow or not. The shutter lag and AF speed doesnt affect me at all FOR THE KIND OF SHOTS I TAKE. So with an M I actually will be affected coz I cannot do the focusing quickly, and I do not want a deep DOF coz I like some background blur and subject isolation.  Like I said I am certain I can be faster with MF after a long while of using the Ms, but meanwhile I can enjoy my hobby better if I can nail the shots quickly. In the street market with my MF speed the whole process will IMO be ruined, based on my ability and speed right now.  The X1's limitation of focal length is an issue, it means outside of my travel, for macro product shots its totally worthless, so is shooting sports. My DSLR stays in the office now most of the time for that.  I have tried the M8 and M9 with the full intention of buying, each and every time the use of RF focusing was strenuous on my eyes after some shots. It requires very good eyesight and concentration, and one can tire quickly. The lack of AF is the critical point why I havent bought an M9 yet, and I want so much to shoot that kind of 35mm and 50mm lux images. So now as an interim solution to take that kind of shallow DOF shots I use a nikkor 35mm f/1.4G and an 85mm f/1.4G. it's a killer combination for me, nailing shots with AFS at f/1.4 and achieving perfect focus real fast.  I know many of you long time leica M shooters may look upon me with disdain haha, but I am being 100% honest with my thoughts here. And I am equally sure some if not many will be in the same boat. My hats off to you veteran M shooters who can almost equal DSLR AF! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Hi phancj, Take a look here Got a X1 Noir. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted January 13, 2011 Share #22 Â Posted January 13, 2011 Like I said, YMMV. But you are confusing shutter lag with focus. Â I am a mere beginner with Ms - I bought my first one about seven years ago - but I learned that focusing is something that you can do while bringing the camera to your eye, once you can judge an approximate distance yourself, and you know where your focus tab is. Often, only that final tweak is necessary when the camera is at the eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted January 13, 2011 Share #23 Â Posted January 13, 2011 Andy, Â Nope, I am not confusing the two. I know what the two terms mean. What I am saying is the overall speed IN ACTUAL USE of the camera, its the sum of the parts. The X1 has noticeable shutter and focusing lag, I agree 100%. But it has AF which no matter what is faster than RF focusing for me RIGHT NOW, and by a very large margin, even more so when my eyes are tired. Â Thanks, seven years is a long time. And I know about the distance judging, it works if you are not shooting wide open? I want an M to shoot at 1.4. Thats my reason of buying an M9. A personal reason coz I like that kind of shots with a Leica M. At 1.4 there can be in many instances a lack of discernible features in the shot to do the "two merging into one" act. I noticed it when trying the lux on the M9. With the DSLR one can just move the cursor. Ditto the X1. Also, the act of approximating and setting the distance is another act which takes time, more than the shutter/focus lag of the X1. Â I wasnt satisfied also with the X1 images compared to the M9 lux shots, and was almost dumping it for the M9 at one point. The LFI and photo forums with those M9 photos did it for me. But after trying the M9 I must say it takes great pictures much better than X1 but I honestly do not think I will enjoy it as a travel camera like I do with the X1. And outside of travel I have a full DSLR kit of primes and zoom lenses. Â Please see this as my experience and mine alone, I am not here defending the X1 or trying to be antagonistic, just my thoughts exactly, without adulteration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted January 13, 2011 Share #24 Â Posted January 13, 2011 It's the lag that compounds the slow focus. Of course you can judge the lag after a while and that helps to time your shots. Â The more I think about it the worse it seems, luckily I shoot a lot of static subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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