X1 vs. Medium Format film

[adan]

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After 85 years of photographers looking at "35mm grain," grainless digital images tend to look like a "bigger format." It's a psychological illusion thing - "grainless" = "Medium (or larger) format" - which is not the whole story.

 

Personally, I firmly believe, based on visual evidence, that, image area for image area and ISO for ISO, digital outperforms film. I.E. an X1 will outperform an APS film camera.

 

But an X1 vs. 6x7 is not equal image areas.

 

For that matter, an M9 (bigger image area than X1) can't quite keep up with a Hasselblad (smaller film area than 6x7). In 16" x 16" prints the difference is just starting to show (mostly as M9 moiré thingies - and leaving aside the intangibles such as "lens drawing").

 

So long as one can shoot BIG film (or sensor), it can always keep ahead of smaller digital, despite the "grainless" illusion.

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[johM8]

Here is one interesting comparison Hasselblad vs D700 (12 MP)

Oleg Novikov Photography

 

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image quality what I get of X1, I like much more than my 1dsmk3 or 5Dmk2.

 

for examble, you can under exposure X1 image quite much

and you still get very reasonable images.

 

Here's one snapshot (testing) what image looked straight from camera

 

 

developed in LR3

 

 

as also canon owner, I can't even dream about something like this in dark areas : )

And that grain looks good for me. I dont know is it due LR3 or what.

 

[johM8]

Would you buy a used M8 for about $2000 or a new X1?

 

I curently have a D3 and a d lux 5

I am not sure how well i will do with a manual focus....

I am inclined to the x1 ...hopefully the new firmware will help with the autofocus

 

The M8 is tempting....

 

Any advice....

 

I was in same situation last summer, M8 or X1, I bought X1 because it fits in my pocket where it is always : ) For me the camera, what I can carry always with is most important, you nerer know... and the best is it's image quality. I had many sony T series, canon G9 & 10, Pana Lx3, oly, but I alway got bored a bit with those image quality. X1 was what I've been waiting for years.

 

and tempting for me is S2, but soooo expensive. If I could afford, my dream set up would be X1, M9 & 35/1.4, 50/0.95, 75/1.4 and S2 with those 4 available lenses.

[Guest]

image quality what I get of X1, I like much more than my 1dsmk3 or 5Dmk2.

 

 

first ,why is the shoot so dark??????

 

the x1 PQ is great,for sure ,but no comparision to the 1ds mk 3 or 5d/2.

this is realy another league !!!!!

if you see no difference its up to you to find out what´s going wrong:)

 

i work with this bodys,also with phase one 645 and cambo superwide,and for sure i like my x1,but .....

i´m a realist !

[johM8]

first ,why is the shoot so dark??????

 

As I said it was test shot. I have done many tests to see what are X1 limits. Also just to show how good is X1 DR / sensor. Sensors are working very differnt. I yesterday took few shots with my friend sigma DP2 : | it was horrible. And at least for me it's a big advance if I can rather a bit underexposure than overexp....

 

for examble here one test (Hi res lowest)

x1

 

X1 stands much more underexposure than my 1Dsmk3 or 5Dmk2 and that sure. With Canon I rather a bit over exposure if it's possible.

 

the x1 PQ is great,for sure ,but no comparision to the 1ds mk 3 or 5d/2. this is realy another league !!!!!

 

There are more mega pixels in canon but I like more X1 PQ. You have 1Dsmk3 & 5Dmk2 ? and of course, if I do something like this. I use my canon. ( my advertisement for local theatre )

JOHANNES WILENIUS random gallery

[Guest]

ok i see a test shot:)

for me it´s more interesting how good the PQ will be , if i take the

correct exposure....and than there is no match for the x1 .

ds/III and d5/2 are another PQ-standart,and yes i work with all this cameras and some others(phase one, cambo, sinar....)

 

.......as i said i like my x1,it´s a great camera.....

[grober]

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Would you buy a used M8 for about $2000 or a new X1?

 

I curently have a D3 and a d lux 5

I am not sure how well i will do with a manual focus....

I am inclined to the x1 ...hopefully the new firmware will help with the autofocus

 

The M8 is tempting....

 

Any advice....

 

I've owned the original M8 (with all its teething problems) and am currently struggling with an early X1. Each camera has its own set of issues (the latter mainly being its s-l-o-w handling speed.)

 

The Leica-M is an acquired taste. But after using one M or another for over 40 years, I could bring the camera to the eye, focus and shoot with great ease -- allowing creativity to rule without being held back by too fussy a camera (if that makes any sense.) When adapting yourself to the M style of shooting, one has to forget most of what you take as second nature when shooting with a SLR. Once you do that, you'll discover the freeing joy of capturing images as if through a clear pane of glass. (Check out the work of Leicamaster Ralph Gibson.)

 

Then there's the whole issue of which lens do you use? There are some wonderful M-mount glasses available (mostly expensive Leica glass) and there are also some not-to-wonderful but workable options. Start with a clean 35mm Summicron and go from there; both wider and longer.

 

Don't be seduced by a $2000 come-on price for any M8 body, no matter how clean and warranted. When it's all said and done, you'll quickly be $10,000 into your M-project. Better plan on a large budget.

 

(I still miss my motordrive-equipped M7 with its lovely staple of ten carefully selected and much-cherished lenses: six Leica and four "others.")

 

-g

[johM8]

if i take the

correct exposure....and than there is no match for the x1 .

 

??? I'm confused, maybe there is something wrong with my 1Dsmk3 : ) but if I eposure right (might vary, depending what I want) forexample in this case, I get more reasonable DR of X1 than of my canon... (and much more than I ever got with film, but not sure about drumscanner)

 

Original, no adjusted

 

Developed in LR3 (would be better result in PS)

 

by the way I tested yesterday my friend sigma DP2 (14MP) and it was terrible compared to X1.

[gjames9142]

I am still shooting 120 B/W on Mamiyas, Rollei TLR and the panoramic Noblex -- which is hard to beat because I can get a great 48-inch print. Here are three from Cuba from a book I am working on. Geoffrey James

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[JeTexas]

I am still shooting 120 B/W on Mamiya, Rollei TLR and the Noblex Panorama for a book on Cuba. The M9 and and the X1 I am waiting for my change my practice, but the Noblex produces an effortless, virtually grainless 4-foot print.

 

 

These are nice shots, but I wish we could see them at full resolution or 100% crops. I'm sure the jpg artifacting of these (especially around the horse statue and street lights) isn't on the film.

[gjames9142]

Joe -- You're right. They look like crap in these small jpegs; here is a 100 crop from another. But from a Mamiya 6. I am having trouble sizing things correctly.

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[phancj]

Do not have the link off-hand but I saw one post where the artist stitch photos of the X1 into this massive photo and it was phenomenal!

 

CJ