Too bad about LightRoom

[Rick]

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hoppyman makes a good point. Lightroom and Photoshop are not mutually exclusive. My perspective is that of a full time photographer. I also conduct workshops including workflow with Lightroom. From this experience I have found that for those who are used to using CSx/ACR/Bridge, that Lightroom is a two edged sword. It takes some time to wrap one's head around it and get used to using a catalog. But once this is accomplished the skill set from ACR/Bridge will help you learn LR and in the end you'll save a lot of time and happily use LR and CS5 (or 4 or whatever) together.

 

Also if you're already organized and have a good file naming and organization system you don't have to change it to make use of Lightroom.

 

I can certainly find faults with LR (or PS or any software for that matter) but here are a few useful things I like about Lightroom:

 

1. With 25,000 images in my main catalog (and growing daily) I can find any image(s) I want in about 1 second.

2. Collections are indispensable for grouping related images and don't affect the location of the image files on your drive. You can have the same images in multiple collections. Smart collections are quite useful too. Somewhat related to this if you use Facebook, Fickr or Smugmug you can publish a collection directly from LR.

3. I love using virtual copies for variations such as black and white, different crops and development treatments. You can have as many as you want and without using any extra disk space.

4. I can create a beautiful looking website and go live with it all in a few minutes. I use this most often for customer requests but great for personal use too for friends and family.

5. Batch capabilities are great for applying keywording and/or development attributes. Keywording capability in general is fantastic

6. Great looking slideshows with music, overlays, etc. can be created in a few minutes and exported as pdf or videos.

7. The ability to save templates for print, web, and slideshow modules and presets for doing just about anything on import or export. One example- I apply lens corrections and custom camera profiles on the fly while importing.

 

One of the most important attributes is that Lightroom is non-destructive (parametric editing) and maintains a complete history of edits. So for images that don't require going into PS you don't bloat your files using layers and you never lose your history. Of course sometimes it is necessary to use PS.

 

Like anything else there are many ways to do things and LR isn't perfect for everyone but it is a useful addition to PS and a great hub for efficient workflow (as is Aperture).

 

My 2 cents

 

Joel, sorry to quote this and use all this space but I agree with all of this. Like any program, once you learn the shortcuts and the not so obvious features, it becomes indispensable. Adan, I think that if you committed to it you would not be sorry.

 

The workflow is very smooth and connected. Files are imported and LR makes a copy of my files to a second location automatically. It can be a disc that can be moved to another location or in my case it is to a backup on a Drobo drive that resides in a safe location. Meta data is added by me and any development presets are used during the import process. The files are stored in a logical folder structure on my MAC and I can browse them in Finder as a real folders structure.

 

Once in LR, files can be copied and moved in the LR folders and the files are moved in the disc as well. Smart files can be made and collections. As Joel said, many instances of the file can exist with only one taking up space.

 

A note about the LR logo that bothers Adan. I hide the top panel all the time. It is never visible. If, I want to switch to a different module I just mouse over the upper area and the hidden strip appears and I choose the development module, for example. It can also be done with, command-shift-2, as 1,2,3,4 are the different modules.

 

Anyway, when in the first module (Library) a search can easily be performed with the somewhat hidden and unused powerful search button in the top strip if LR. The area is labeled "Library Filters:" From here choose "Metadata" and each window can be set for a bizillion different metedata choices. By clicking each window choice any picture can be found in seconds.

 

This is just a small look at the library module in LR. The workflow is so easy. And there is so much more like importing, exporting, syncing, and other stuff that is fast and easy. Once, like a lot of programs, you get the hang of it it is powerful and fast.

 

This is just the first module (Library). The other modules are equally fantastic. Just one thing that Joel mentioned was the ability to make virtual copies of pictures. When in the Development module you can press command-' and a virtual copy will be made. This copy could be made into a B&W conversion for example and it would not destroy the changes already made to the color version. Or, it could be a copy of the original as imported from the camera.

 

For example, Let's say you have spend some amount of time adjusting and cropping a photo in LR. Now, you decide that you want a B&W version but, you don't want all of the adjustments made to the original file. Since LR is nondestructive, you can simply choose the original import and make a virtual copy. Now, you have the color adjusted photo sitting right next to the new virtual copy that is to become B&W. You can do the same sort of branch with a copy of your adjusted color photo with a third copy of the color photo with all of its crops. Then, for example, you could press command-E and it would be taken right in to CS5 where it could be worked on and then saved. Saving from CS5 brings the third copy right back to your library where it will neatly sit right along side of your other two photos, exept the third copy will retain the CS5 adjustments. Now, you have 3 instances of the photo and the original still exists as well.

 

All of this works so quickly and easily. And, so far I haven't even talked about how good and easy the other modules are. Sure, its a work in progress but, so is everything else.

 

ps Joel your gallery is fantastic and I enjoyed looking at it and showing it to my wife, she loved it. Photography photo workshops tours digital & film Southwest & Tuscany Italy Provence France Europe & Tuscan tour workshops Provencal photo tour workshops Fine art European & Southwestern photos pictures & images & photo classes in Grand Canyon Arizona

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[tobey bilek]

PS and bridge work perfectly. LR is a toy targeted to people who just hold the shutter down and want to fix all the junk they get with one click. ACR has a batch function that is just as good.

 

Certainly cheaper than PS and you get access latest ACR which has decent NR. But it works even better if you do not sharpen in ACR, export as TIFF smart object, then make an edge mask which looks like a pencil sketck of the photo but it protects the edges, click the smart object icon in the layers pallet which takes it back to ACR , do the NR, go back to PS. This allows you get really agressive with NR and not softening the image.

 

Nik Define2 is better with a layer mask. Not all the hopping around

[Rick]

PS and bridge work perfectly. LR is a toy targeted to people who just hold the shutter down and want to fix all the junk they get with one click. ACR has a batch function that is just as good.

 

Certainly cheaper than PS and you get access latest ACR which has decent NR. But it works even better if you do not sharpen in ACR, export as TIFF smart object, then make an edge mask which looks like a pencil sketck of the photo but it protects the edges, click the smart object icon in the layers pallet which takes it back to ACR , do the NR, go back to PS. This allows you get really agressive with NR and not softening the image.

 

Nik Define2 is better with a layer mask. Not all the hopping around

 

I agree except, I just haven't used Bridge for 3-4 years. But, I do all sharpening in PS with or without layers. NR can be done the same way you describe in ARC but, you just export the photo from LR to PS. The flow is different but, you can do the same thing. I'll try your ARC workflow. It looks like less import/export to and from PS but, I need to see it for myself before I comment (I'll try your method when I finish typing here). Love smart objects. Depends on what I plan to use the end file for if, printing, then PS is the last step and the print program for me.

 

I'm not sure if I agree that LR is a toy, and sometimes I am the "people who just hold the shutter down and want to fix all the junk they get with one click. Sometimes, because it is bad and sometimes because a really good photo often doesn't require much.

 

Thanks for the ARC tip.

[biglouis]

Lightroom rocks, period. Bridge is old-fashioned by comparison. That's my two-cents.

 

LouisB

[zlatkob]

LR is a toy targeted to people who just hold the shutter down and want to fix all the junk they get with one click.

Not true at all. Lightroom is absolutely brilliant software. I've been using it since the first version and have great respect for the work that went into it.

 

Two years ago I attended several seminars given by some outstanding photographers at PhotoPlus Expo and they where all happily using Lightroom. Believe me, these photographers weren't fixing "junk".

[Rick]

Ok, Tobey I tried your workflow to see what you were getting at. I have to disagree. LR is still better because you can do the same thing with a better interface and more control. Workflow isn't any different or harder with LR. And, you can still do the same edge mask technique. I had to try your idea first because I haven't used Bridge based file management for 3-4 years.

 

Remember, ACR is still integral to PS and you can apply the same ACR noise reduction to the Filter/Stylize/Find Edge/Invert Edge layer mask with PS from a file from LR as easily as you can from Bridge. Bridge doesn't exclusively make it possible or easier or better. You just have to work out of the clunky Bridge interface.

 

I agree with Louis and Z.

[MindsEye]

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I had to try your idea first because I haven't used Bridge based file management for 3-4 years.

 

...Bridge doesn't exclusively make it possible or easier or better. You just have to work out of the clunky Bridge interface.

 

I agree with Louis and Z.

 

LR is essentially a more integrated approach to Bridge with some more capabilities through the modules. There's nothing wrong with using Bridge and I know some pros that use it alongside LR when they need to show something to a client quickly for photos that haven't yet been imported to the LR catalog.

 

I conduct LR workshops that are 3 days long- which I consider the minimum, with a small group, to get through workflow strategies and techniques using LR as the main hub. So it is difficult to convey the advantages of a LR based workflow in a few words on this forum. Suffice it to say that based on the collective experience on this forum it is a useful tool for those willing to invest the time. I don't believe it has to be "either or" with Bridge and PS. If you are comfortable using Bridge and can't or don't want to invest the time into LR then by all means keep using Bridge.

 

ps RickLeica- Thank you for the kudos on my website and work!

[MindsEye]

LR is a toy targeted to people who just hold the shutter down and want to fix all the junk they get with one click.

 

I wish it were so easy to turn junk into something great and saleable. As a working pro my clients don't tolerate junk. If I end up capturing frames that are no good they get deleted from my LR catalog and drive. Being a critical (even brutal) editor of your own work is essential for professional success and Lightroom makes it easy (Bridge works too.) I do prefer Lightroom and agree with zlatkob that it is a brilliant program.

 

website

[tobey bilek]

I almost bought because of the new NR in ACR 6.2 and the adjustment brushes.

 

In the end, Nik Defin 2 can do better than ACR as ther is more control, can save profiles and reapply to new images, and I can use a layer mask (find edges modified) to maintain complete sharpness.

 

The adjustment brush only works with certain functions.

 

CS5 trial also slowed my computer to a crawl, like 30 sec for simple transactions. Uninstalled, restarted, and it was back to it`s zippy self. Goes as fast as I can push the buttons.

[MindsEye]

I almost bought because of the new NR in ACR 6.2 and the adjustment brushes.

 

In the end, Nik Defin 2 can do better than ACR as ther is more control, can save profiles and reapply to new images, and I can use a layer mask (find edges modified) to maintain complete sharpness.

 

I've never been crazy about the noise reduction in LR/ACR. The Color noise reduction works well but the luminance isn't that great. The latest versions are an improvement though still not as good as the better third party stuff. The only advantage of the NR in LR/ACR is that it is non-destructive (parametric editing) so I'll use the color noise part of it but generally not the luminance. If I need luminance NR I'll use Noiseware Pro with which I'm happy. But currently Noiseware only works in 32 bit mode in CS5 so perhaps it is time to examine Nik Define and Noise Ninja again...

[hoppyman]

Third party specialised tools can be an excellent addition to your image processing options, no question. I updated my copies of the Photokit tools from Pixel Genius plus NeatImage for noise reduction and they run fine from within Photoshop 64 bit.

Talk to the providers re upgrades and activations though. For example if your machine is running 32 bit and 64 bit Ps that can mean two activations and some want a small fee to upgrade from old versions as well. However if your computer slows to a crawl when you use Ps, you need new hardware for sophisticated image editing

 

Notwithstanding all of that, in the latest version of LR, noise reduction is improved further (for M8/9 especially) during the original Raw conversion and the optional tools after that process are intended to be used in tandem with the sharpening options. Each affects the other and the masking option makes a lot of difference too. Personally I regard those LR tools as perfect for capture sharpening ( for every Raw file) and a conservative noise reduction step (and presets make life very easy). You can preview the effects in real time as well. Using these options while staying in DNG is a considerable advantage, rendering your masters to the best starting condition. Then saving versions as PSD,TIFF, JPEG lets you use dedicated settings optimised for your output (print/web)

All of that applies equally to ACR and LR of course.

 

By the way the adjustment brush options are pretty comprehensive, I would say! You can brush on/off, add/subtract effects from any combination of

Exposure, brightness, contrast, saturation, clarity, sharpness and colour with variable intensities, brush size, feathering, density and the automask option can be extremely useful as well.

 

Lightrom is designed to have a simpler interface but it is a very powerful developing tool as part of its capabilities. Well worth spending some effort to get to know it better.

 

I almost bought because of the new NR in ACR 6.2 and the adjustment brushes.

 

In the end, Nik Defin 2 can do better than ACR as ther is more i control, can save profiles and reapply to new images, and I can use a layer mask (find edges modified) to maintain complete sharpness.

 

The adjustment brush only works with certain functions.

 

CS5 trial also slowed my computer to a crawl, like 30 sec for simple transactions. Uninstalled, restarted, and it was back to it`s zippy self. Goes as fast as I can push the buttons.