Clive Murray-White Posted November 27, 2010 Share #621 Posted November 27, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Quick Shots Part 2: Leica M9, Olympus E-P2 and Nikon D3s | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS There's probably a very good reason to have a look at this if you are considering M9 - though it is another of those "loony" tests that just leave you wondering, what on earth goes through these guy's minds, my main reason for getting M8 was for careful pictures taken on a tripod, not really the Leica way but basically unbeatable for the kind of pictures I need - to be fair next week Huff should dream up a test that really suits the D3s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 27, 2010 Posted November 27, 2010 Hi Clive Murray-White, Take a look here Should I take the M9 jump!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Clive Murray-White Posted November 28, 2010 Share #622 Posted November 28, 2010 ThorkilB: Life in Cowwarr - Clive Murray-White Australian Sculptor | SmugMug Here's bigger versions and more - First 8 with ThorkilB in the caption. - Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 28, 2010 Share #623 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi Clive...!!!... Thank you, those are nice shots! and you can feel a bit of australia (even though I dont know a bit of this country)..! One thing,...can you allow me to say that?...the picture from the desk, with the man from the back, and the little man sitting, just a wish that you had "intruded" yourself and gone further forward (one or 2 meter from the others back, preset at 1,5m just to se his face (in a little dramatic way) sticking out from the others ansharp back) even though it would had attrackted his attention, I know(and I can't say I would dare, but..), but he got a face one would wish to spot closer on. But I know its difficult! (sort of stepping alarming inside a persons personel room).... I cant get permission today to go out, to much to do in the house, and the wife, you know...(no written permision today), but I'll try in the working-hours tomorrow, I'll promise! (nearby-promise!).... Thorkil and now for work and some snow removal on the sidewalk... (is it a dolphin?) (wish I was a morning-man, light is so sweat and "untouched" in the morning, and, at least here, cool, clear and soft, if I were a morning-man all my outside pictures were taken there..)(but no cafés opens at that time..) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 28, 2010 Share #624 Posted November 28, 2010 Clive...some totally other thing, perhaps provoked by the thoughts from Ixania, I would like to share some thoughts with you as an artist (nothing to do with your pictures or mine)..some of the following days. Just about the artistic proces itself. I'm not an artist, but have been looking at paintings all my life, from the teenage-years and on. And as I told Richard a lot of pages ago, I drove as 18 years old round in eastern europe and ended in Amsterdam looking at Rembrandts echtings for a whole week. And one echting I stille remember totally clear was one with the lost son coming home to his father, all very "touching", but then you just looked down in the right corner, and there was little dog sitting, pressing and making a huge shit. Very funny when it was from Rembrandts hands, but not only funny, also an odd way the get connected with the artistic work and the wiever, where just an artistic and certainly an anarchistic spark had glimsed in his backyard-brain. Another thing I've noticed... by the palaces in Venice, is that there are no ones that has symmetric facades, perhaps the second-last window to the right is a totally odd window, another dimension or another shape ...or something else, the dimesions are both tight and beeing let loose. Another thing. I've been a fan of a danish painter all my life, Oluf Hoest, he has painted a lot of paintings of his beloved farmhouse at Bornholm, but when he grew older, over 60, he was letting himself lose, and then he made some fantastic masterpieces, featherlight and dreaming paintings, just of the same farm-house, seen from the same spot, but from another world. All my life I have been wondering about the artistic proces, the "rules" inside this proces. Most people will say, there are no rules. But that is wrong I think, even though its not "normal" rules, its a proces. What has this to do with photografy? What has this to do about M-cameras? Just a little bit. I wil try, if I can, to return to this one of the following days, if you have got the patience to listen?... Thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 28, 2010 Share #625 Posted November 28, 2010 Hi ThorkilB: Thanks for all the comments, if I responded to all your observations properly, and then the ones that you add in we'd have written a book or two before before we'd know it! You see the 2 pictures that you basically said get closer were actually the ones where I was very self-conscious. The gas station just made my mind say this is a stereotype, sure many people have taken arresting pictures of them - both here in Oz and the US - I think they work on the creative principle of opposites, ie the idea that you could get art out of something as "new" as a gas station is pretty much post WW2 and goes against the whole history of western art - so the first guys who did it offended old sensibilities. A decaying gas station in the middle of nowhere becomes an obvious statement about the state of our world - to me a far too simplistic and obvious statement - which is why I become self-conscious. Taking pictures of the old guys in the pub just made me feel as if I could spoil their afternoon, they certainly didn't go out to have someone stuff a camera in their faces. On other hand the picture of guys on the boat actually contains many of the sorts of things that really interest me - a style of composition that owes a lot to abstract painting and allows the viewer to wander about in the picture - no clear statements just hints instead - which kind of make the viewer contruct their own story. The restaurant shots on my Smugmug link could only have happened because, I went there early as I was getting up at 4am, told the management that I'd bought this funny old camera (M8) on eBay and if they didn't mind I'd entertain myself while having my dinner - so, if you like, we had a relationship - when the husband and wife came in, we started talking and I told them the same story, the guy used to be a keen 35mm film photographer and his wife was as bored by men talking DoF and the virtues of various systems etc as my wife would be. I know I'm not much of a photographer but I do know a lot about the creative process having been an art school lecturer for about 30+ years. I've even made quite a study of the learnable techniques that can enhance one's creativity. I think the key question here is, "how do you find out what really interests you?" As with everything there is no single right answer, but I'd say the 2 best ways are:- 1)--- You decide to make a series of things, so lets keep this to photography, first you go out and take a bunch of snaps of things that catch your eye, you process them and choose one picture that seems to contain something that is close to appealing to you - you go out again and try to capitalise on your discovery, repeat the selection process - but hide the first set of pictures, do this 4 or 5 times always hiding the earlier efforts - most people are very surprised at the personal artistic "development" they make in a very short time. 2)--- Incidentally this is my preferred option - quite often you see something that another artist has done which you like a lot but feel that it can be done a great deal better - so you just go and make a new improved better version. The reason why this is so effective is that you don't really know that what you responded to in the artist's work is what artist actually set out to express!! An extention of this is "rediculous criticism" a technique where you list all the things that are said to be good in an artist's work and you turn them into bad and pronounce them as problems, once you see a problem then to can start to try to fix it. Best place to see creativity at work is in TV ads, particularly in those that are versions of the same idea and they cleverly ring the changes. I think that'll do for now!! Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 28, 2010 Share #626 Posted November 28, 2010 2010 Mini Medium Format Shoot-out Another of those items of compulsory reading if you need reasons to justify buying an M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 29, 2010 Share #627 Posted November 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Clive Just got up and did some snow removal at the sidewalk, and has now read all your word, and they just are rotating a little chaotic in my mind just now, but I will read it later on. But I think I will answer you in a different way, later on. (yes I liked the picture of the boat to, morninggathering of comitted fishermen...!, with the day at its wakeupcall) I'll just drive my daughter, work a bit and see if I are able to coordinate my mind with the snow-circumstancies some drive, walking and coffedrinking in my little copenhagen... (sorry if my spelling and word sometimes becomes a bit danish-english) thorkil (yes I often look at the luminous page, but Michael Reichmann writes too little...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 29, 2010 Share #628 Posted November 29, 2010 ps...clive...yes it can difficult to disturb people, and intrude in their room and atmosfere.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 29, 2010 Share #629 Posted November 29, 2010 No hurry with your pictures ThorkilB - the weather in UK is making the news here and I guess you in Denmark are having some of it too, time to just talk if you are snowed in. Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 29, 2010 Share #630 Posted November 29, 2010 No hurry with your pictures ThorkilB - the weather in UK is making the news here and I guess you in Denmark are having some of it too, time to just talk if you are snowed in. Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 29, 2010 Share #631 Posted November 29, 2010 PART 1 Art – and why the heck it is? Art…is it just skilled craftsmanship?….yes it can be. perhaps…but often not. Often it is just skilled..craftmanship. What makes Rembrandt a great painter? What makes Venice’s palaces harmonic and beautiful and Oluf Hoest’s painting to featherlight dreams? We believe that we see some beautiful, something harmonic. But the trick is that we don’t, but we believe so, but our brains believe, because, the picture, the glimpse, the vision it tells, talk to our braincels in a way that an ordinary plain harmonic show-of dull ordinary picture or vision don’t do. Why? Because our brains don’t think linear, it don’t think and makes inner visions in straight lines. It makes it in jumps, in unpredictable anarchistic and chaotic strokes, lines, rytmes. Harmony is just not harmony. If we se harmony showed as simple harmony, we get bored. Harmony is harmony with some disharmony inside, although with so little disharmony that we often don’t recognize it. And later on just remember it as deeply harmonic. Yellow with only yellow inside is uninteresting, but when you ad 1/25 of hefty red, the yellow comes alive, and seems like the only reel yellow in the world compared with the other, and if one told you there was red inside, you would insist on it as a lie. The liberation of the things can be art Our braincells are turned on if they get an wake-up call. And how come? Think of your odd dreams, when you ought to be in a harmonic sleep. Then unnatural things is happening, almost nothing is just plain “normal”, often the contrary. Even a dream that you think of just while you dreaming it seems perhaps totally harmonic, but when you wake up you realize it wasn’t. It was weird and without rules. Skilled craftsmanship becomes art when it isn’t just craftsmanship anymore, when it speaks to you in more than just a simple manner. That’s where it raises itself. It’s where something is at stake. But you can’t grab it, because it contains more than just a simple message, it moves your brain, your brain begins to make its own life, creates its own visions from it. It puts an spark inside your brain and things begins to happen. That’s how great art can be. And often it’s working unconsciously. And if you were asked, you often can’t specify what exactly moved you in that picture, painting, sculpture, house, landscape, that weather or what. So art is that, what just don’t show you, what you think you have seen, but instead moves you, and therefore moves you mentally so you see something different than you actually see……so simple, or what? Part 2 will follow in a moment or two, or perhaps later on Thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 29, 2010 Share #632 Posted November 29, 2010 Egil Jacobson..., Günther Förg, Tal-Coat... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 29, 2010 Share #633 Posted November 29, 2010 Oh dear ThorkilB what have I done! As for Rembrandt and what makes him great, easy answer he invented the M9 of his day and used his Noctilux wide open - his was better than ours because it could it could focus on both near things and far things simultaneously and could infinitely vary the bokeh. Nice tool eh? He also had low light nailed! But in truth those things, fabulous as they may be, aren't the half of it, top of the list in the intangible category is his ability to create something that reminds viewers of what it means to be human. Next would be that he invented a way to show the core values of the society he lived in by democratising both subjects and composition. In the end art is just the human expression of what it means to be alive now, and as NOW is always changing art just follows suit. Contrary to popular myth no artist has ever been ahead of their time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 29, 2010 Share #634 Posted November 29, 2010 Contrary to popular myth no artist has ever been ahead of their time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 30, 2010 Share #635 Posted November 30, 2010 just couldn't help myself! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/133001-should-i-take-the-m9-jump/?do=findComment&comment=1517090'>More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 30, 2010 Share #636 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi and good morning Clive...! Sun is just awaked here in copenhagen, and the carpenters on the other side of the street have just begun to let there elektrical tool whirring (those days with handtool are just gone, and some of the skil too..) Do you think Rembrandt might have had scren-problems on his M9? And for NOW....just another cop of coffe.... Thorkil Perhaps no artist have been ahead of there times, but some have felt or been misunderstood:rolleyes: the audience is sometimes/often some conventional bastards... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 30, 2010 Share #637 Posted November 30, 2010 (clever done that Rembrandt Clive, although he might have forgot hes glasses when focusing...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Murray-White Posted November 30, 2010 Share #638 Posted November 30, 2010 No no ThorkilB his 2+ diopter, just like mine, hasn't arrived yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted November 30, 2010 Share #639 Posted November 30, 2010 ...clive....I can see on the world-watch that you are going to cook some dinner soon..meanwhile I will consider to take a jump...out in the real and cold world bringing that insane bulky D3 with me, but sun is up on a relatively clear sky, and sun is no good at photos, but as those unskilled amateurs we both are, it doesn't matter, we don't have to live up to something (what a relief..)...but one wish, one could have had the gift, but age help to accept circumstances:rolleyes: bon appetit... thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted November 30, 2010 Share #640 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi Mike (and Andy)Could you be persuaded to participate?. If I just can get allowed to send 2 shot from Nyhavn as a persuasion. And Andy hereafter I will try to behave... Thorkil I feel I have to politely refuse. 1 My Jpegs appear to slightly exceed the size allowed by this site. I'm too lazy to make them smaller. 2 Not being a Leicaman or -convert, I get the feeling I have outstayed my welcome already. 3 Some people rightly object to pics being posted in this thread. Those are the rules... Goodbye and enjoy your cameras! Michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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