MikeD700 Posted October 11, 2010 Share #161 Posted October 11, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) P.s.: I'm not a fan of the "stolen" shot either. Socalled "candid" shots, particularly taken "from the hip", need large dof to have any chance of succeeding and therefore usually turn out somewhat "less than interesting" (which, incidentally, is still better than "less than zero")... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hi MikeD700, Take a look here Should I take the M9 jump!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pimver Posted October 11, 2010 Share #162 Posted October 11, 2010 Ha!.. Now this is good news. I talked to my Leica dealer yesterday about my dilemma. Turns out they have a loan M8 available specifically for this purpose! Customers who are interested in an M but don't know if they get along with a rangefinder and/or like it enough to spend the money. They said there's only one obligation; you have to use it for a week. Not just two days, that is too short to get a good idea and feel of M photography. Costs nothing! I already thought they were an excellent Leica dealer but this goes further than I expected. I will be picking it up today with a 28 mm lens. I'll keep you posted of course! Richard. who are they, i want to talk to them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimver Posted October 11, 2010 Share #163 Posted October 11, 2010 Oh and... I love this place. On the corner next to Nivo-Schweitzer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share #164 Posted October 12, 2010 On the corner next to Nivo-Schweitzer? No, not next to Pim. It is Nivo Schweitzer. Very good shop & Leica dealer imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 12, 2010 Share #165 Posted October 12, 2010 Richard, Was a busy day yesterday, just got to work today. yesterday I went to the Universal studios in Singapore for the first time (been to the 2 in the States many times), wanted to see how the one here compares. After that I went to the newly opened Leica showroom, all the 35 and 50 lux and cron sold out, so I used a 28mm cron to try out the M9. Was gorgeous camera good handling. I took the showroom and the sales staff with both the M9 and the X1. Havent pixel-peeped yet (haha) but off the cuff I can tell you my friend the X1 performs extremely admirably (from jpegs). I will upload to you-send-it or some other site for you to download if you wish, both DNGs and jpeg fine. I am sure I will get better with RF focusing but I can tell you people may moan about the X1 AF but having AF is a BIG plus, much faster than turning knobs for me (although I do not dispute some RF experts can be faster). Also, I find the M9 LCD terrible for checking shots, not sure even if the shots are in-focus from the LCD. The X1's is bad, the M9's worse. I can only tell you that I think one should buy M9s for interchangeable lens, larger files for prints, and if they really dig RFs. Of course the prestige too. If you are ok with just the 35mm, I think the X1 has a lot going for it. The showroom staff was competent and extremely helpful, and the showroom was nice like in an art gallery kinda way. I will post images later for all. Bring your SD card and go to the leica showroom to physically test the M9. But Leica stuff sells and sells, the staff told me they sold out ALL their lenses on opening day. The X1s are apparently out too, only few M9s left. Whats cool is they have vintage Leicas for all to ogle too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
len_gee Posted October 12, 2010 Share #166 Posted October 12, 2010 I don't see why not. You want it, you lust for it, go ahead and get it. Hey, you're a professional photographer so, it will be an excellent tool for you. Dont know if it will make you a better photographer, or make better images, but........ sounds like you want it. If you can justify the high cost once you get the M9 + a lens or two, then I say "go for it." Afterall, you only live once. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share #167 Posted October 12, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi CJ, There is no question about the X1 having a lot going for it. As there is no doubt about its excellent IQ. By now I have a lot of M8 and X1 files on my PC and I have a clear view how they compare. From a decision point of view there is no need to try the M9 also as the M8 and M9 are really close. With the M9 being a shade or a lot better on various aspects. From my experience now I wouldn't be able to form any valuable judgement or well founded opinion from shooting a few frames outside a Leica shop. Nor would I be able to get a feel for what shooting and using an M is about. But if it doesn't grab you, surely there is nothing wrong if you feel it's not for you and/or not worth the considerable investment. The X1 is an excellent compact after all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 12, 2010 Share #168 Posted October 12, 2010 Hi CJ, There is no question about the X1 having a lot going for it. As there is no doubt about its excellent IQ. By now I have a lot of M8 and X1 files on my PC and I have a clear view how they compare. From a decision point of view there is no need to try the M9 also as the M8 and M9 are really close. With the M9 being a shade or a lot better on various aspects. From my experience now I wouldn't be able to form any valuable judgement or well founded opinion from shooting a few frames outside a Leica shop. Nor would I be able to get a feel for what shooting and using an M is about. But if it doesn't grab you, surely there is nothing wrong if you feel it's not for you and/or not worth the considerable investment. The X1 is an excellent compact after all! Not sure if it is me, but when I tried the M8 all my shots were sharply focused. With the M9 some were a little off, maybe I was tired at the theme park in the morning. I was using a 28 cron. BTW, a serious point: My X1 had a 2-year warranty in Singapore (one year extra for online registration), the M9 has a confirmed 1-year warranty. A big point against it here, I dunno whats with the reduced warranty here. How long is warranty there in your country? For you Richard, are you able to focus quickly and sharply on every shot and if so how long does it take? I wish to know since it seems (for me at least given my skills) it is virtually impossible (only maybe to me:p) to be able to focus as quickly as the X1 with the RF, with the slow AF of the X1 even. When focusing lets say a portrait do you use the outline of the face to do the focus (I used that), or the eyes (tried that too)...how to establish which "double image" to use for focusing? I suppose it comes with practice but meanwhile any pointers will be helpful. I will try out the 35 cron and 50 lux when they arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 12, 2010 Share #169 Posted October 12, 2010 CJ, when you have got double image, you are simply out of focus, you have to focus until there are no double lines.. or have I misunderstood? thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 12, 2010 Share #170 Posted October 12, 2010 YEs, to focus we try to match so there's no double lines. My question is sometimes there is a choice as to what part of the image to use for focusing, coz in certain instances the object may be not so distinct so hard to match if you cannot find any very discernible shapes/lines to put the two images to superimpose. For example, the facial outline it is easy to superimpose, but not so sometimes for eyes/other features...dunno how to put it exactly in writing...I get the RF focusing, put two images so they superimpose into one, but on some images it is very challenging... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 12, 2010 Share #171 Posted October 12, 2010 ok, then I get you, But then I just try to find an object at the same distance with very high contrast, and use this for the setting, then its easy and quick... thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 12, 2010 Share #172 Posted October 12, 2010 ok, then I get you, But then I just try to find an object at the same distance with very high contrast, and use this for the setting, then its easy and quick...thorkil Sometimes its not easy, coz we want to use very limited DOF, but I'll try more when the lux arrives...thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecruise Posted October 12, 2010 Share #173 Posted October 12, 2010 I've been following this thread quite closely (a good one I should say) as I have been struggling with the same question: should I take the plunge and buy the M9. Now, I can't really say that I'm upgrading as I both the X1 and M9 as having a distinct place in my growing collection (to my wife's dismay), and because I haven't had the X1 for all that long to be honest. In any event, I decided today to buy a gray M9 with a chrome 35 Summicron from Kurland Photo in NYC (to be shipped to me in Australia). After researching this thing for the past year, and being fully familiar with all its faults, etc I figured why the heck not go for it. As they say, you only live once and you can't take your money with you. Then again, I'm sure my wife's thinking more along the lines of I should be spending more on her and less on my camera gear. All in, this could be a risk as I've never used a rangefinder before; especially not one costing almost 7k, but I'm likened to believe that I'll thoroughly enjoy it as I'm sure a number of you do already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share #174 Posted October 12, 2010 BTW, a serious point: My X1 had a 2-year warranty in Singapore (one year extra for online registration), the M9 has a confirmed 1-year warranty. A big point against it here, I dunno whats with the reduced warranty here. How long is warranty there in your country? For you Richard, are you able to focus quickly and sharply on every shot and if so how long does it take? I wish to know since it seems (for me at least given my skills) it is virtually impossible (only maybe to me:p) to be able to focus as quickly as the X1 with the RF, with the slow AF of the X1 even. When focusing lets say a portrait do you use the outline of the face to do the focus (I used that), or the eyes (tried that too)...how to establish which "double image" to use for focusing? The M9 has a 2 year warranty here. But I must admit - silly as it may sound - that I wouldn't feel any different if it was 1 year. I had to look it up since you asked. I didn't even thought about it. Focusing takes practice. I'm not yet as quick as the X1 locks focus with AF. But I'm getting better at it each day. And indeed on some subjects it's more difficult if the double image doesn't stand out clearly. But you develop as sense where the focus-tab on the lens roughly needs to be in relation to the subject distance. This puts you close to focus quickly and helps to 'find' the superimposed image more easy. Second, absolute spot-on focus is only critical with a large or wide open aperture. Especially when the subject is close. With smaller apertures (f/4.0 and up with the 28 Elmarit) its much less critical as the subject will fall into the DOF anyhow if you're close to focus. In practice the system works really well... Another thing, I think there is no need to put too much weight/value on the 'need' for Cron or Lux lenses. Both Erwin Puts and Sean Reid are very positive about the relatively new line of Summarit lenses. Erwin Puts (not just anybody in the Leica world I'd say) reckons the 35 Summarit is even better than the Cron. Smaller, lighter and at roughly half the price of a Cron worth a serious consideration at least imo. As with many Leica gear, there seems to be some hype and worship going on around the high-end lenses too. Not always founded on facts. You could by a trinity of Summarit lenses for about the same price as one Lux. Gosh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecruise Posted October 12, 2010 Share #175 Posted October 12, 2010 Another thing, I think there is no need to put too much weight/value on the 'need' for Cron or Lux lenses. Both Erwin Puts and Sean Reid are very positive about the relatively new line of Summarit lenses. Erwin Puts (not just anybody in the Leica world I'd say) reckons the 35 Summarit is even better than the Cron. Smaller, lighter and at roughly half the price of a Cron worth a serious consideration at least imo. As with many Leica gear, there seems to be some hype and worship going on around the high-end lenses too. Not always founded on facts. You could by a trinity of Summarit lenses for about the same price as one Lux. Gosh... Agreed. Why stop there. I'd suggest Zeiss as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 12, 2010 Share #176 Posted October 12, 2010 The M9 has a 2 year warranty here. But I must admit - silly as it may sound - that I wouldn't feel any different if it was 1 year. I had to look it up since you asked. I didn't even thought about it. Focusing takes practice. I'm not yet as quick as the X1 locks focus with AF. But I'm getting better at it each day. And indeed on some subjects it's more difficult if the double image doesn't stand out a clearly. But you develop as sense where the focus-tab on the lens roughly needs to be in relation to the subject distance. This puts you close to focus quickly and helps to 'find' the superimposed image more easy. Second, absolute spot-on focus is only critical with a wide large or wide open aperture. Especially when the subject is close. With smaller apertures (f/4.0 and up with the 28 Elmarit) its much less critical as the subject will fall into the DOF anyhow if you're close to focus. In practice the system works really well... Another thing, I think there is no need to put too much weight/value on the 'need' for Cron or Lux lenses. Both Erwin Puts and Sean Reid are very positive about the relatively new line of Summarit lenses. Erwin Puts (not just anybody in the Leica world I'd say) reckons the 35 Summarit is even better than the Cron. Smaller, lighter and at roughly half the price of a Cron worth a serious consideration at least imo. As with many Leica gear, there seems to be some hype and worship going on around the high-end lenses too. Not always founded on facts. You could by a trinity of Summarit lenses for about the same price as one Lux. Gosh... I am in the midst of looking at the images (between work:p) some observations: 1) The files are much sharper for the M9 without sharpening (DNG) 2) The X1 jpegs are way better, some M9 jpegs are terrible but I guess people buy this machine to work in DNG exclusively 3) For Lightroom raw files handling it seems to me often with the X1 "embedded" works better and sometimes "Adobe standard" but with the M9 "Adobe standard" seems to have truer colors more often (based on teh files I am looking at) 4) The M9 has a magenta cast on some of my photos not present in the X1. These photos have this cast on the right. I might take a look at the summarit as you suggested but frankly given the weaker high iso performance I would want the faster lenses, not so much buying into the hype. Anyway with leica lenses you cant go wrong always sold out and good resale value. The camera I still need time to ponder. For all I know sony or other company may come out with a better body than now and I can still mount these gems on them so I do not worry a bit about buying Leica lenses however expensive they are (except the notilux, was S$15,000+ gosh!) Right now in Singapore it seems the M9 is readily available (at least for now) but lenses seem to have disappeared! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share #177 Posted October 12, 2010 Agreed. Why stop there. I'd suggest Zeiss as well. Absolutely. I have had impressive results with a 35 Zeiss Distagon on a Canon SLR. Talking about ease of focus... Beautiful lenses and very well made. I'm not sure how this works with the lens coding'n all. More than enough to learn and figure out... But if I take the M9 plunge I'll start off with a Leica lens for sure. Either a 35 Cron or 'Rit'. BTW, Congrats with your M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 12, 2010 Share #178 Posted October 12, 2010 Absolutely. I have had impressive results with a 35 Zeiss Distagon on a Canon SLR. Talking about ease of focus... Beautiful lenses and very well made. I'm not sure how this works with the lens coding'n all. More than enough to learn and figure out... But if I take the M9 plunge I'll start off with a Leica lens for sure. Either a 35 Cron or 'Rit'. BTW, Congrats with your M9! Dont' compromise on the focal length used most. You will end "upgrading" soon after having purchased a "Rit", at a loss. If the budget requires some discipline, start with one or two CVs and upgrade from there, the losses will be smaller. If 35 or 50 is your main focal length, you will always lust after the asph Summiluxes. So skip the steps in between and save some money. Luxes cost a lot (cash out), but have proven to be inexpensive, eventually (keep or even appreciate in value, unlike currencies;)). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimver Posted October 12, 2010 Share #179 Posted October 12, 2010 No, not next to Pim. It is Nivo Schweitzer. Very good shop & Leica dealer imo I know, let me know when you have returned it so I can give Pieter a call and do the same thing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD700 Posted October 12, 2010 Share #180 Posted October 12, 2010 Heh heh... This going to be expensive...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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