ThorkilB Posted October 6, 2010 Share #61 Posted October 6, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Tina! WHAT a nice camera you got there! just a well used tool as the intension was..!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 Hi ThorkilB, Take a look here Should I take the M9 jump!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
RichardM8 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share #62 Posted October 6, 2010 Comparing the digital M with the X1, besides IQ, UI, size and weight, there are other criteria which make the two so different tools to use. The M responds immediately, focuses exactly where you want it to focus, as fast as you can, releases its shutter when you want it to be released, becomes the extension of your eye and arm. As far as speed, focusing and framing accuracy are concerned, the photographer's skills are the decisive factors. The X1, sometimes, has its own life, not exactly or immediately doing what it ought to do, getting into ones way. The RF shooting experience is unique, whereas the one with the X1 is not. I think this is well put Ecaton. Sums it up nicely imo. @CJ, For sure most current SLRs have blazing fast AF. If you use AF lenses too that is (so no Leica, Zeiss glass etc). I don't see the point here. As manual focus systems go, the M focussing system is the best one out there. And more important, a real pleasure to use. If you don't like manual focus or find to much strain on the eyes, any discussion about M Leicas' is pretty pointless imo. BTW the few images I posted in this thread are just from playing around with the M8. They are not meant as test material against the X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 6, 2010 Share #63 Posted October 6, 2010 haha, but what if I love those shallow DOF and dreamy bokeh which in my opinion are what the other camera makes cannot duplicate as perfectly? My first M-lens (assuming I end up buying ) will mostly likely be a lux, likely 35mm. ...then you got to decide..either a skilled eye-surgeon:eek: or don't use the 1.4 aperture (I would keep the shallownes a little more wide...)...then we could save some time in finding THE sharp little spot in a corner of the picture:rolleyes: thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 6, 2010 Share #64 Posted October 6, 2010 My M8's have been dropped in rivers in Honduras and India. My M9 has traveled with me to remote places in developing countries. They are all still working fine. I had the shutter replaced on an M8 after I dropped it on a marble floor. It was still in warranty and returned in one week by Leica. I've never had a minute's problem with the M9. I'm really hard on equipment!! Here is my M8: Still works fine! Tina Hey Tina, Now thats reassuring... Do you have any idea of cost to send for RF realignment and stuff like that? Assuming out of warranty, how much would shutter replacement costs, any ballpark? Shelling out this amount for the M9 is fine (almost the limit for me)but if exorbitant repair costs arise that'll kill the enjoyment for me! But your photo is my kinda testimonial, really. Thanks! CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 6, 2010 Share #65 Posted October 6, 2010 ...then you got to decide..either a skilled eye-surgeon:eek: or don't use the 1.4 aperture (I would keep the shallownes a little more wide...)...then we could save some time in finding THE sharp little spot in a corner of the picture:rolleyes: thorkil Muahahha! Ever wonder why eye surgeons do not lasik themselves?? What would the maximum width for f-stop you think would make focusing easier on a lux? For old tired eyes, that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 6, 2010 Share #66 Posted October 6, 2010 Tina! But the little well-preserved plastic-film on the screen, still got some sentimental value for you...I can see thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 6, 2010 Share #67 Posted October 6, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think this is well put Ecaton. Sums it up nicely imo. @CJ, For sure most current SLRs have blazing fast AF. If you use AF lenses too that is (so no Leica, Zeiss glass etc). I don't see the point here. As manual focus systems go, the M focussing system is the best one out there. And more important, a real pleasure to use. If you don't like manual focus or find to much strain on the eyes, any discussion about M Leicas' is pretty pointless imo. BTW the few images I posted in this thread are just from playing around with the M8. They are not meant as test material against the X1. I am just wishing for AF, but accept that may not be possible on the M. Since you appear a lot younger I would be interested in seeing how many images you can comfortably take before being tired in the eyes. That was one of the considerations I had too. For one thing I do not think we can train the eyes to not be tired haha... Of course I will be very interested in the kind of images the M8 is producing, and consciously and unconsciously matching them against the X1 photos you take. Reason is I really think I need to see the differences in IQ, the rangefinder mechanism aside. For me (maybe not to you) the IQ is the sole determinant. Do not get me wrong I got nothing against RF, I tried the M8 and could get used to it. I will also unconsciously extrapolate a little since the M9 has IQ advantages over the M8. I can get a loaner for M8 here, but not the M9. Still on pre-order most places. Actually not the loaner, rather I go to a used store, strike a bargain with the guy, pay full price for used M8, but with an option to sell back at agreed price after an agreed duration... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 6, 2010 Share #68 Posted October 6, 2010 Muahahha! Ever wonder why eye surgeons do not lasik themselves?? What would the maximum width for f-stop you think would make focusing easier on a lux? For old tired eyes, that is. .....I'm just an unskilled amateur, so the others have to contribute, but just try 2.8, 4 and so, and when you got the time and patience the 1.4..(but its rather easy to find something with great contrast at ca. the same distance to set the distance, I think) Thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorkilB Posted October 6, 2010 Share #69 Posted October 6, 2010 By the way..to all others ..just take a look at Tina's homepage and see some astonishing and wonderfull pictures....!!!...and think about what a Leica M can do in front of the right eyes...! Thorkil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share #70 Posted October 6, 2010 Since you appear a lot younger I would be interested in seeing how many images you can comfortably take before being tired in the eyes. I really think I need to see the differences in IQ, the rangefinder mechanism aside. For me (maybe not to you) the IQ is the sole determinant. Do not get me wrong I got nothing against RF, I tried the M8 and could get used to it. Maybe, I'm 44. I have never been shooting a ton of images and never will so I really don't now. For me 50 frames is very rare. I simply don't see that much subjects or scenes I want to capture I guess... For me IQ is no very important. Indeed #1 but not the only one. I see that the M will make/teach/allow me to shoot different images than with the X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Manley Posted October 6, 2010 Share #71 Posted October 6, 2010 Hey Tina, Now thats reassuring... Do you have any idea of cost to send for RF realignment and stuff like that? Assuming out of warranty, how much would shutter replacement costs, any ballpark? Shelling out this amount for the M9 is fine (almost the limit for me)but if exorbitant repair costs arise that'll kill the enjoyment for me! But your photo is my kinda testimonial, really. Thanks! CJ Sorry, CJ, but I'm not in my office this morning and don't have access to my receipts. The cost is not exorbitant, though. Just treat your cameras like I do mine and don't worry about it! ;-) Tina Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 6, 2010 Share #72 Posted October 6, 2010 Sorry, CJ, but I'm not in my office this morning and don't have access to my receipts. The cost is not exorbitant, though. Just treat your cameras like I do mine and don't worry about it! ;-) Tina BTW Tina, went to your site, gorgeous photos you take! CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 6, 2010 Share #73 Posted October 6, 2010 Maybe, I'm 44. I have never been shooting a ton of images and never will so I really don't now. For me 50 frames is very rare. I simply don't see that much subjects or scenes I want to capture I guess... For me IQ is no very important. Indeed #1 but not the only one. I see that the M will make/teach/allow me to shoot different images than with the X1. haha that puts us about the same age I'm 43... You do have a load of photos from your Bangkok trip that led me to assumption that you are shooting hundreds. My trips are abbreviated so shooting becomes more intensive! Keep those M8 images coming, I cannot wait for those towards the end of the week! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share #74 Posted October 7, 2010 There was a stunning sunset last night. Captured with the M8. ISO640 f/4.0 1/125sec. Quite noisy in Lightroom btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 7, 2010 Share #75 Posted October 7, 2010 Truly beautiful. After NR in LR3 no probs then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share #76 Posted October 7, 2010 No the image has too much noise to 'clean-up' completely in LR. This is not always necessary of course (usually not) but I strikes me how much cleaner the X1 is at these ISOs. But it must be said, the images do look stunning... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 7, 2010 Share #77 Posted October 7, 2010 No the image has too much noise to 'clean-up' completely in LR. This is not always necessary of course (usually not) but I strikes me how much cleaner the X1 is at these ISOs. But it must be said, the images do look stunning... Then maybe its the age old CCD vs CMOS choice. CCD better definition lack of AA filter means sharper, but CMOS has less noise generally? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share #78 Posted October 7, 2010 Each sensor technology has its pros & cons. The way I see it now, the M9 has to be a whole lot better at higher ISOs or this could be a deal-breaker for me. I think a camera at this price-level should perform better than this on image noise... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted October 7, 2010 Share #79 Posted October 7, 2010 Each sensor technology has its pros & cons. The way I see it now, the M9 has to be a whole lot better at higher ISOs or this could be a deal-breaker for me. I think a camera at this price-level should perform better than this on image noise... But the allure of the M9 I feel is NOT the high iso performance, but if I buy the M9 it is to use lenses like the lux to get that creamy look? But I understand perfectly what you mean about wanting more for that price. Right now I am less bothered about noise but more concerned with the actual durability of the digital Ms. Of course we must take info on the net with big bags of salt haha but so many complaints for build quality it is hard to ignore. But many slam the X1 too and it is ok camera. I think you must concede compared to the X1 both the M8 & M9 will have poorer high iso performance. Judge it based on its merit which is amazing IQ and in your case, good handling. Also, I really think if possible you should try it with a lux. OI am taking my time really on this decision process coz on the back of my mind I am sure Leica will improve on the m9 quickly, look at how long they took to get a M8 update while the M9 update came out so quickly. I am sure the guys at solms are not resting on their laurels, but are trying hard now. I am going to find some time to go try the lux lens, probably when i get hold of the 35mm 1.4 nikkor so I make one trip to the store instead of two. WIll bring a SD card so I can keep all the images to compare. Will bring my X1 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share #80 Posted October 7, 2010 But the allure of the M9 I feel is NOT the high iso performance, but if I buy the M9 it is to use lenses like the lux to get that creamy look? Agree, the M9 is not about high ISO performance. But I don't consider 640 'high ISO'. All Leica lenses are superb. Fortunately you don't need a Lux to enjoy the M9. The more modest (by Leica standards) Elmarit & Summarit lenses already produce wonderful results. The 'Crons' are fabulous and I consider them the sweetspot of the lens range. If I decide for the M9 my choice would be either a 35 or 50 Cron. I don't think there will be any significant upgrade or successor of the M9 anytime soon. It's extremely good and also reviewed as such by virtually all knowledgeable sites and reviewers. And There are still waiting lists for it around the world. Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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