richam Posted September 19, 2010 Share #1 Posted September 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) With over 500 photos so far on my X1, I ran across a tricky exposure situation and decided to try bracketing for the first time. The statue of Achilles in Corfu is dark gray but sits on a white marble pedestal. Set the bracket at ±1 2/3, and took the photos hand held, expecting to pick the best one from the computer later. At f 5.6, the exposures were 1/400, 1/1250, and 1/125. In Lightroom, the frames looked aligned, so decided to try HDR processing in Photomatix. To my surprise, the HDR worked quite well for a hand held shot. This gets me to wondering how the bracket works. Are there 3 separate exposures, or one exposure with 3 different image readouts as the exposure elapses? Anyone know? It it's the latter, then we should be able to get consistently good HDR brackets hand held as long as the total, or longest, exposure is within reason for hand holding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 Hi richam, Take a look here X1 Hand held HDR -- a delightful surprise. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
JeTexas Posted September 21, 2010 Share #2 Posted September 21, 2010 This gets me to wondering how the bracket works. Are there 3 separate exposures, or one exposure with 3 different image readouts as the exposure elapses? Anyone know? It it's the latter, then we should be able to get consistently good HDR brackets hand held as long as the total, or longest, exposure is within reason for hand holding. I haven't tried it yet, but the simple answer to that question is how many times did you hear the shutter click? If it clicked off three times, it's taking three different photos. If it only clicked once then it's pulling all the exposures off one long exposure at different intervals. My guess is that the shutter clicks 3 times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted September 21, 2010 Share #3 Posted September 21, 2010 it is taking 3 different photos by the way nice image Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted September 22, 2010 Thanks for the comments. I just verified it; set the shutter volume to high and the shutter clicked 3 times. I'm still amazed at what this camera can accomplish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted September 23, 2010 Share #5 Posted September 23, 2010 Yay for proper hdr that doesn't make me feel like I walked into fantasia! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelb Posted September 23, 2010 Share #6 Posted September 23, 2010 Yay for proper hdr that doesn't make me feel like I walked into fantasia! Yes, that's true. HDR has a bad name for producing totally unreal images, there are millions of horrific HDR images out there. But used sensitively, it can help you make the most of quite difficult lighting conditions and can be a useful tool - I have been known to use it myself on rare occasions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted September 25, 2010 Share #7 Posted September 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I understand that, also that it has been used 'properly' for many many years. I was just appreciating that one was posted whilst usually seeing the fantasy land shots these days. That's the thought behind my comment, not a lack of hdr understanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardcor Posted September 25, 2010 Share #8 Posted September 25, 2010 I haven't tried it yet, but the simple answer to that question is how many times did you hear the shutter click? If it clicked off three times, it's taking three different photos. If it only clicked once then it's pulling all the exposures off one long exposure at different intervals. My guess is that the shutter clicks 3 times. Hi, pls. ignore my ignorance about HDR i am not sure what you mean by this type of processing? is it a shutter speed priority or apeture priority setting? Or a over expose or under expose mode?? Thank you for any advice you can give me as I am considering buying this little beauty. regards Cor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted September 25, 2010 Hi, pls. ignore my ignorance about HDR i am not sure what you mean by this type of processing? is it a shutter speed priority or apeture priority setting? Or a over expose or under expose mode?? Thank you for any advice you can give me as I am considering buying this little beauty. regards Cor. HDR = High Dynamic Range. Simply stated, when you have a high contrast subject, you can take two or more bracketed exposures and combine them to get all the detail in both the highlights and shadows into one image. The images should be taken in aperture priority mode by varying the shutter speed. Otherwise you might change the focus (i.e. DOF) from frame to frame. And usually you should be using a tripod to get identically aligned images. My surprise in this case was that the bracketing mode on the X1 takes the photos so fast that no tripod was needed. You don't need a camera with bracketing mode or even a digital camera to use the technique; you can take manual exposures. But using a tripod will produce the best results After the images are in your computer, numerous software options are available to "squeeze" the exposures into one HDR image. This can be done in Photoshop, but I bought Photomatix and like the way it works. Whatever software is used will have various settings for the HDR "squeeze," and you can get many effects by changing the settings -- from natural looking to weird "grungy" or "fantasy" looks. As already noted, there a lot of postings in the latter categories; they may be high art to some but are generally not my cup of tea. Here are the X1 bracketed shots, so you can get an idea how it starts. The X1 bracketing mode takes one normal exposure, then an underexposed and overexposed frame. The order is not important as the software sorts it out later. Note that the #1 normal exposure frame has fairly good detail in the marble base, but lacks detail in the statue. Conversely, #3 has good statue detail but blown highlights in the base. It probably wasn't necessary to include #2, but the X1 took the image automatically, so I included it in Photomatix. Hope this explains it satisfactorily. Good luck if you decide to give it a try. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/131694-x1-hand-held-hdr-a-delightful-surprise/?do=findComment&comment=1451606'>More sharing options...
phancj Posted September 25, 2010 Share #10 Posted September 25, 2010 hey Michael, yup, your photo certainly does not have that awful artificial look sometimes found in HDR. What I feel is for HDR either you exaggerate the dynamic range so that it is out of this world or you make it subtle so it looks like a perfect photo taken not with HDR, even though the conditions necessitate using the technique. I am thinking the cyan color at the bottom of the statue may looks a tiny tad "HDR"(or is it my screen though it is calibrated), I have taken the liberty of toning it down, hope you do not mind. Sorry for some artifacts due to small size of the posted image. Attached for comments... This thread is great, I have only tried HDR once with this camera for a city scene, then a bus and some pedestrians spoilt it for me, otherwise the photo was great:D Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/131694-x1-hand-held-hdr-a-delightful-surprise/?do=findComment&comment=1451625'>More sharing options...
richam Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted September 25, 2010 hey Michael, yup, your photo certainly does not have that awful artificial look sometimes found in HDR. What I feel is for HDR either you exaggerate the dynamic range so that it is out of this world or you make it subtle so it looks like a perfect photo taken not with HDR, even though the conditions necessitate using the technique. I am thinking the cyan color at the bottom of the statue may looks a tiny tad "HDR"(or is it my screen though it is calibrated), I have taken the liberty of toning it down, hope you do not mind. Sorry for some artifacts due to small size of the posted image. Attached for comments... This thread is great, I have only tried HDR once with this camera for a city scene, then a bus and some pedestrians spoilt it for me, otherwise the photo was great:D I re-created my steps for the original image, making sure Photomatrix was in the "Natural" setting, and no other hue adjustments (although I did about the same sharpening and vibrance adjustments). The cyan seems to be a bit less this time. I also included more details at the bottom of the image. The sky was cloudy and impending rain. If you check the white trim on the rear building, plus the gray lamp housing and white sign below the statue, they look about right to me for the cloudy conditions. If you would like to process the larger images, go to this album: Achilles HDR Gallery and press the download button. You will then get a zipped file with 3 full sized images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted September 25, 2010 Share #12 Posted September 25, 2010 The image is perfectly fine on my screen, except I find the cyan green patch very "radioactive" for want of a better word.. Since you were shooting the scene you will know what the correct color is, it is just that on my screen the color looks a tad weird, even on the second one you posted. Have you put my posted image side by side with yours and look at the greenish patch (presumably copper oxide) just below the feet of the statue and let me know which color would be the one you saw whilst shooting... Hopefully anyone else looking at these images can give some input too? The photo looks great anyway, just a thought. Cheers, CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted September 25, 2010 Share #13 Posted September 25, 2010 I assumed the cyan patch was verdigris deposits from the copper in the statue. Thank you Richam for starting this educational and useful thread. I have avoided HDR for all the stated reasons above. However I do concede that, used sensibly, it does have its place in the digital 'toolbox'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted September 25, 2010 Share #14 Posted September 25, 2010 Hey michael, in the spirit of experiment I downloaded the underexposed jpeg and tried to "pull" the lighting and colors. Just a quick moving of sliders in PS Elements to see what we get, nothing serious. Attached for your kind comments. Of course the raw files will give us more magnitude to play with and the jpeg less. In these situations may be better to shoot in raw as well? Cheers, CJ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/131694-x1-hand-held-hdr-a-delightful-surprise/?do=findComment&comment=1451721'>More sharing options...
richam Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted September 25, 2010 The image is perfectly fine on my screen, except I find the cyan green patch very "radioactive" for want of a better word.. Since you were shooting the scene you will know what the correct color is, it is just that on my screen the color looks a tad weird, even on the second one you posted. Have you put my posted image side by side with yours and look at the greenish patch (presumably copper oxide) just below the feet of the statue and let me know which color would be the one you saw whilst shooting... Hopefully anyone else looking at these images can give some input too? The photo looks great anyway, just a thought. Cheers, CJ I agree that the "cyan patch" was a bit weird, but it was weird in person. Perhaps there's some strange reaction between the white marble and copper oxide drainage from the statue. My versions are very close to how I remember the scene, although I admit I pumped up the vibrance a bit as I normally do for web viewing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted September 25, 2010 Hey michael, in the spirit of experiment I downloaded the underexposed jpeg and tried to "pull" the lighting and colors. Just a quick moving of sliders in PS Elements to see what we get, nothing serious. Attached for your kind comments. Of course the raw files will give us more magnitude to play with and the jpeg less. In these situations may be better to shoot in raw as well? Cheers, CJ Glad you're having fun with the images. Your "pulled" image looks over-processed. The detail in the statue seems excessively harsh and the relative brightness between the statue and pedestal does not seem right. My images come closest the what I remember in person. I did shoot in DNG + JPG, but only uploaded the jpg originals to save file size and time as well as avoid compatibility problems. I ran the HDR software on 16 bit TIFF files generated from the DNGs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted September 25, 2010 Share #17 Posted September 25, 2010 Glad you're having fun with the images. Your "pulled" image looks over-processed. The detail in the statue seems excessively harsh and the relative brightness between the statue and pedestal does not seem right. My images come closest the what I remember in person. I did shoot in DNG + JPG, but only uploaded the jpg originals to save file size and time as well as avoid compatibility problems. I ran the HDR software on 16 bit TIFF files generated from the DNGs. Yup, the jpegs are over-processed for sure, raw may yield more desirable files... Looks like the end of our little experiment . BTW, the photos on your site are superb. Cheers, CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share #18 Posted September 25, 2010 Thank you Richam for starting this educational and useful thread. Appreciate the sentiment but I'm sure I got more educational value from this anyone else. FWIW, I never expected this image would be a "wall hanger," just wanted to post my finding to interested X1 users and exchange ideas for future shots. A few days later, I posted what I consider an X1 HDR "wall hanger" in the landscape & travel photo forum: Mytikas Sunset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted September 25, 2010 Share #19 Posted September 25, 2010 Appreciate the sentiment but I'm sure I got more educational value from this anyone else. FWIW, I never expected this image would be a "wall hanger," just wanted to post my finding to interested X1 users and exchange ideas for future shots. A few days later, I posted what I consider an X1 HDR "wall hanger" in the landscape & travel photo forum: Mytikas Sunset. Your Mytikas Sunset HDR is awesome! Cheers, CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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