3880 vs 4000?

[wparsonsgisnet]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

My 2400 is dead; long live ....

 

So I'm debating between a 3880 and a 4000. Anybody want to weigh in?

 

Many thanks,

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

Hey Bill. I assume you really mean the 4000 and not the 4880. I think the 4000 is a 7 year old machine and doesn't have the latest K3 inks, etc. I don't know a lot about it. Will you use the Epson or Cone inks? Do you need roll paper capability?

 

I explored the 3800 versus the 4800 last year and decided on the 3800 for my needs. (The equivalent comparison now would be the 3880 versus the 4880.). The 3800 offers switching between blacks without changing cartridges; the 4800 does not. The 4800 is a much bigger machine designed to handle more industrial level use, roll paper capability, auto head cleaning, etc.

 

You could consider a refurbished 3800, but the 3880 is a better machine...improved ink set (magenta), better head technology, and some other things. The 3880 was recently offered at Atlex for $799 after rebate, but I think the sale ended on 8/13. If you can find a similar deal, you should jump on it. I see sales all the time...printer companies make their profit on the inks, so the printers are just bait.

 

Jeff

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jeff, thanks for the response.

 

I made the same decision that you recommend and am looking for a good price for the 3880.

 

I really miss the roll capability that I had with the 2200. Neither the 2400 nor the 3880 offers roll handling.

 

Nuts. I think the 4880 look fantastic, but I chose the wrong parents.

 

Regards,

[Jeff S]

 

Nuts. I think the 4880 look fantastic, but I chose the wrong parents.

 

 

You might look for a refurbished 4800 if price is the only issue. I could have bought a new 4800 (after the 4880 was close to introduction) for less than I paid for my 3800! Or, if you can wait, the 4880 will surely come down in price when the next generation appears.

 

But beware...the 4800 series is a beast...it comes delivered on its own wooden pallet, and a dedicated stand is preferred to hold the thing. The 3800/3880 is much smaller and easier to handle. My friend bought the big guy, and substituted Cone inks, but he prints in volume.

 

Jeff

[01af]

The 3800/3880 is much smaller and easier to handle.

Actually the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 and 3880 are the only A2-format printers I am aware of that a single person can lift and carry. It also has a fairly small footprint. The print quality is excellent, and I had not a single nozzle clogged in two years. The only drawback—no roll paper.

[borowiec]

Bill,

 

I have a 4000 that I bought new in late 2004 and it has performed flawlessly, with very heavy use. Unlike with the 4800, you can switch back and forth between matte and photo black ink without changing cartridges. The only disadvantage is that certain papers--notably Epson Exhibition Fiber--are not compatible with Utlrachrome inks, they require K3. If I were you, I would try to find a refurbished 4000. Or if you're mechanically inclined, buy one on e-bay and refurbish it yourself, I can send you a link where you can download Epson service manuals. I did that with a couple of used 9800s whose donation I was able to secure.

 

The 4000's weight and bulk is one of it's great advantages, as far as I'm concerned: it's very sturdy and virtually indestructible. By comparison, I bought two 3800s a couple of years ago for the university where I teach and we've had nothing but problems with them. They are flimsy and the various parts are prone to bending, which results in head strikes and other misalignments. I know that many people on this forum speak highly of them but we will always spend the extra money to get the 4000 series instead. In the long run, they're a much better deal. But I do wish they would come out with a 4900...

 

Andrew Borowiec

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Actually the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 and 3880 are the only A2-format printers I am aware of that a single person can lift and carry. It also has a fairly small footprint. The print quality is excellent, and I had not a single nozzle clogged in two years. The only drawback—no roll paper.

 

My 3800 is fantastic, although I had some clogs early on. I sent it to a local Epson repair service and they not only fixed it but gave me a full set of inks (worth about $450) for my trouble. Not a clog since. I hear the 3880 is even better.

 

The 4800 series is a better machine, as noted in other posts, but it's huge.

 

Jeff

[wparsonsgisnet]

... I would try to find a refurbished 4000. ...it's very sturdy and virtually indestructible...[/url]

 

Andrew, Epson has refurbished 4000's available and that's what I was considering. If I do that, I get a sort-of-new printer with the K3 inks, the matte black, and roll capability.

 

I think I can deal with the 80 lb problem.

 

I just like buying the latest version, in this case the xx80 model, when I replace the printer. The refurb 4000 would be cheaper than a new 3880.

[borowiec]

Bill,

 

Another advantage of the 4000 over the 3880 is that ink is much cheaper per ml because you can buy it in 220ml cartridges. Check out the prices for the tiny 3800 cartridges compared to those for the 4000.

 

I use my 4000 a lot but there have been times, when traveling etc., when it's gone for weeks without any use, yet I've had very little problem with nozzle clogs. Only once in the whole time that I've owned the 4000 have I had to do a power cleaning, and that was because I naively accepted the machine's prompt to do that. Instead, when I haven't used the printer for over a week or am going out of town, I put 3-4 drops of cleaning solution on the docking pad (where the heads rest when the printer is off) which soaks up into the nozzles by capillary action and dissolves the resin in the ink, preventing it from drying out. Then, when I turn it on I print a simple nozzle check and most of the time everything is fine.

 

I use the cleaning fluid sold here (scroll down, this has to be one of the most chaotic websites out there):

 

Inkjet cleaning fluid

 

Andrew Borowiec

[wparsonsgisnet]

Andrew, thanks for your comments. I sat overnite before ordering a 4000 refurb today. I will have to make a date with a gorilla to get it into my office, of course.

 

Thanks for the cleaning suggestion, as well. I'll get some of this stuff and use your methodology.

[Jamie Roberts]

Andrew, Epson has refurbished 4000's available and that's what I was considering. If I do that, I get a sort-of-new printer with the K3 inks, the matte black, and roll capability.

 

I think I can deal with the 80 lb problem.

 

I just like buying the latest version, in this case the xx80 model, when I replace the printer. The refurb 4000 would be cheaper than a new 3880.

 

Bill, the 4000 is NOT a K3 printer, but the generation before that, so photo blacks aren't as good. I had one and got rid of it; I don't need the roll feed. I've used the 3800 ever since and it's about done, so it's 3880 time.

 

Do you print matte or photo black mainly Bill? If you print a lot of matte black it's a great printer.

 

BTW--mine clogged all the time. Might be a humidity thing.

[borowiec]

Bill,

 

Jamie is correct in that the 4000 doesn't use Ultrachrome K3 but the earlier generation of Ultrachrome inks, so it's not ideal for black and white. It's Epson driver doesn't have the Advanced Black and White mode found on later printers with newer ink sets. There is a work around, which is to use the Quadtone RIP. It's not as convenient as Advanced B&W but it works just fine, once you figure out its idiosyncrasies.

 

I wish I had thought of this earlier but for black and white I still use a chemical darkroom, I only use my printers for color, so I wasn't considering black and white capability when I recommended the 4000.

 

Andrew

[Jamie Roberts]

Andrew,

 

If I recall correctly, Bill uses ImagePrint anyway, so his black and white printing will be fine (no casts or metamerism), but without the dynamic range and bronzing improvement the K3 blacks bring with photo black.

 

Matte black printing will be exactly the same, and the 4000 handles rolls of stuff like museum fine art... so that's nice.

 

But for photo glossy printing, the 4000 isn't ideal compared with the K3 or later stuff...

[Guest malland]

While I haven't used the 3880 or the 4000, I've used the 7600, the 9800 and, now, the 9880. Going from the 7600 to the 9800 with its K3 inks meant much better blacks. However, the printers that I've used before the 9880 clogged frequently and required many head cleanings that wasted a lot of ink. I find that the 9880 clogs much less frequently: when I started it after not using it for four months I found that it hadn't clogged; using it one week and then not using it for two weeks I found, again, that it hadn't clogged; after that it clogged once, but lighlty (only one line missing on the test) and was fine after one cleaning. Based on this experience I would tend to go for an x880 printer.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Early Morning Market at Pak Nam Pran

[borowiec]

Jamie,

 

Although I've read that the 4000 inks are inferior to newer ones for glossy media, I've been using the 4000 for several years to print on fiber inkjet papers such as Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta with terrific results. I haven't had any problems with metamerism or bronzing but I don't use resin-coated papers. I think those problems are greater on plastic papers. The settings for Fine Art Baryta call for Photo Black, by the way.

 

Andrew Borowiec

[sanyasi]

I would not rule out the Epson 4880 out of monetary considerations. I bought mine last summer when I think the list was around $1,900--if you aren't doing something special with lettering or commercial printing, you don't need the more expensive versions with the extra software. The place I bought mine through was discounting about $100 and Epson had a $750 rebate program. Also keep in mind that you are getting somewhere between $400 to $500 in ink, but a good chunk of that ink gets wasted in priming the pump the first time (some estimate 1/2, but I think that is high). Overall, I put the cost below $1,000.

 

I bought the 4880 because I wanted to replace two cheaper printers that didn't always feed the paper nicely. The 4880 is solid as a tank. One caution: It is big and heavy so read the dimensions and measure carefully if you decide to go with it.

 

I don't know whether the 3800 gets you access to the special technical support line, but I have to say, the support has been very good.

 

My one complaint is that the print drivers are lousy, but I have found that to be the case with both Epson and Canon drivers. The prints are fine, but the software interface is poorly designed so it takes a little time to get the hang of it.

[wparsonsgisnet]

I just told FedEx to send the 4000 back to Epson. I'll be getting a 3880, and thanks to Jamie for his customary, on-the-mark comments.

 

I did a CIS a few years back -- mostly to gain archival quality. When I got everything set up, there was Epson with new inks that had longer life. I give up.

 

I note their 200-year timelines, and I have commented before that I read that these lifetimes are based on 30% fade being non-perceivable and therefore acceptable. Anyway, I did like the K3 inks in the 2400.

 

Yes, I do use IP, also per Jamie's totally perceptive comments. (How come everyone on this damn forum is smarter than I am?!!) As it happens, I have the "lite" version for the 2400, so moving to the 3880 will cost me a $500 upgrade, courtesy of ColorByte. I'll take that step a little while after playing with the 3880. One's choice of parents can be so limiting.

 

Thanks for all the feedback. This is a fabulous forum! Regards to all,

[Jeff S]

Good move, Bill...since I recommended it based in part on the current ink set compared to the 4000, and improvements over the 3800, which I own. Hope you got a great price, too.

 

Jeff

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jeff, yes, thanks to you too.

 

I am starting to look around for pricing. I've seen 819 at B&H and there were no refurbs at Epson. I'll spend when the refund comes from the returned printer.

 

I'm just going to have to think I'm a great date, when I have to buy these ink carts.

[Jeff S]

Bill, I know you're familiar with Cone, so you probably are aware of their color inks for the Epsons, including the 3880...Color inks for EPSON printers.

 

I don't use these in my 3800, but they are less expensive than Epson inks.

 

Jeff