X1 Camera Calibration in Lightroom 3

[RichardM8]

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Somehow I overlooked or forgot about this during the first weeks with Lightroom 3.

 

When you open a DNG file from the X1 in LR3 in the Develop module there is a choice under Camera Calibration > Profile between 'Embedded' and 'Adobe Standard' (= default).

 

These profiles render the images differently. My question is twofold. Is the X1 fully supported in LR3 and which profile should I choose? I'm not sure what is what and why...

 

Richard.

[phancj]

Go for "embedded", that should be the one with the X1 parameters set in.

[hoppyman]

Richard, Adobe Standard indicates that Adobe have made a specific profile for your X1. So that is the best starting point. Although it is not labelled as such "Adobe Standard" here means Adobe X1 Standard" Adobe Standard is the same name but different things for different camera models. You will only be offered profiles for the particular camera type that your files belong to.

Embedded is the only option available if Adobe has not made a specific profile for your camera type.

Any camera that produces DNG files is automatically supported because of the nature of the format but the individual profiles are as a result of testing with one or more samples of the camera by Adobe.

[RichardM8]

Clear as a bell hoppyman! Tnx!

[phancj]

Richard, Adobe Standard indicates that Adobe have made a specific profile for your X1. So that is the best starting point. Although it is not labelled as such "Adobe Standard" here means Adobe X1 Standard" Adobe Standard is the same name but different things for different camera models. You will only be offered profiles for the particular camera type that your files belong to.

Embedded is the only option available if Adobe has not made a specific profile for your camera type.

Any camera that produces DNG files is automatically supported because of the nature of the format but the individual profiles are as a result of testing with one or more samples of the camera by Adobe.

 

hmmm, strangely in LR2 many files appear better i "embedded" profile leading me to believe thats the one matched for the X1, coz many pics are overexposed when "adobe standard" is applied. Any idea why?

[RichardM8]

With some images I see the same thing phancj... confusing...

[hoppyman]

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Maybe it might be helpful to look at the camera calibration settings as useful starting points when you develop your images. There is not just one 'correct' rendering of your files.

Keep in mind that a profile could be 'pleasing' or neutral but not necessarily both at the same time. It is entirely personal choice what you like and naturally that is likely to change with subject/intent/purpose etc etc. All of that is contingent on what you see on your screen or print too. That is a lot of variables. Absolutely no penalty to try any available profile. The same applies of course with any other edits that you do. In Lightroom the original file is always preserved and the develop settings just recorded to go with it.

 

If you are seeing files that are 'overexposed' you would normally correct that with the other settings. The profile really means how your camera renders (interprets) colours.

I've only shot maybe twenty frames with an X1 (because I was offered an S2 to play with!) but I did not see any dramatic differences in the rendering between 'embedded' and Adobe Standard.

 

Maybe useful to take a look at some Lightroom tutorials or invest in a book if desired. The new Martin Evening title is an absolute bible for example.

 

Shooting raw (DNG in this instance) is really a different mind set to shooting JPEGs where the camera has already made the develop settings decisions for you (and discarded a lot of information in the process). Since your camera always saves both DNG and JPEG you may like to compare both renderings onscreen or whatever your output is. Generally speaking the DNG profile will tend to be more muted than a JPEG at its default settings. Try for example increaing contrast and saturation as well as altering the exposure setting if you prefer the JPEG 'look'

Have fun and post photos in the photo forum too.

[nippa]

Hi Hoppyman I'm a bit confused here and a total novice at Profiles.

 

I've always used embedded as I think I read that advice in one of Scott Kelby's books.

I've been scanning my books but of course, I can't find the reference to it.

 

As the RAW file from the X1 contains an embedded camera profile* shouldn't that be used?

As others have suggested the results appear better than Adobe Standard at least to my eye.

 

 

*based on info on Adobe Forums

[hoppyman]

Nippa, I'm not sure if you had seen my last post on this when you posted this? No problems of course, just pardon me if I am repeating myself or unclear.

If you prefer the rendering that you get from the embedded profile then of course there is no reason why you should not use it in preference to the new one. Both would most commonly be adjusted as you wish in the developing anyway.

 

If you open a TIFF or JPEG with your Raw Converter then you will see that the only option there is the embedded profile also.

 

If you aren't familiar with the profiling process, the basics are that Adobe (or a user since you can do it yourself as well) uses one or more samples of the camera model to photograph a standard colour target which contains 24 swatches (including 6 from black to white) under measured colour temperature light. They use a daylight standard and a tungsten standard. The RGB values of every patch are carefully controlled and known. Possible values each for Red Green and Blue are between 0 and 255 for each.

 

What the profile does is to compare the camera's rendering of each patch to those known values. Then it uses those two sets of figures to come up with the profile. So for light that is warmer than daylight but cooler than tungsten say, it interpolates between the two sets of results to come up with a correction. Just as an example, with the profile your system knows that when your camera says say R125 G124 B131 it really means R127G127B127 (a pure grey).

 

So your profile is designed to reproduce the most accurate rendering of each tone. That may or may not be what you actually want (and it's a bit more complicated than that but the principle is valid). Other higher volume selling cameras may be provided with more than just one profile. Typically there is at least a Camera Standard too which is meant to produce what the camera's default JPEG settings do. Those were developed specifically because users newer to raw processing very often do expect the default raw conversion to look like what the in camera JPEG s look like. Keep in mind that those typically have compressed blacks for example, higher contrast and more saturated colour. So they look 'better'. One of the points of shooting raw is that none of the captured information is thrown away (the way the camera does with JPEGs) so you have much more room to produce photos looking as you want or correcting errors or whatever.

So you can start by using just default settings for your raw conversions but you can do much more as you learn the capabilities.

[nippa]

Thanks Geoff

Sorry to make you repeat yourself ; it's a bit clearer now:)

[RichardM8]

Informative post Geoff, thx!

 

Richard.

[Dan States]

Pick the one you like the best.

[RichardM8]

Pick the one you like the best.

 

Tnx! Now I really understand it !...

[Dan States]

Sorry, I wan't trying to be a smartass, I just think you can stop worrying about what is "official" and go with what your eyes prefer. I often switch profiles between camera BRANDS....The Nikon D700 profile actually looks pretty good in Capture One even on M8 files!

 

This is after all a creative pursuit, so enjoy!

[hoppyman]

Dan it is impossible to use a profile from one camera type on files for another camera type in Lightroom or Adobe Camera Raw.

Remember these profiles only work initially for DNG files, although once you have made them they can be applied to other raw formats from the same camera. That situation does not apply for Leica Cameras though since DNG is the native raw format.

 

The only ones available in the camera calibration menu are the ones that work with the original camera model. Sometimes there is confusion because the name of the options 'Adobe Standard' or 'Camera Standard' is the same whichever camera model files you are working on. Nevertheless they are different files. The file extension is .DCP if you want to search your system and see the different files in different folders for different camera models.

 

Camera profiles in this discussion means the Adobe or user provided camera calibrations that are available in Lightroom or Adobe Camera Raw. A profile in Capture One is a different thing.

[Dan States]

OK. you can do it in C1. Done it many times. Funny how they do let you cross brands for lens correction in LR but not other stuff.

[h00ligan]

I'm still going over old photos trying to figure out what Leica does to the jpgs as I think they are good, but not infallible. Anyone found any sort of starting point that leads to images similar to the jps (but with more headroom)?

 

There's something I really like about the jpgs, which is odd as so many poopoo them... but I don't wish to go back to jpg shooting. :/

[hoppyman]

OK. you can do it in C1. Done it many times. Funny how they do let you cross brands for lens correction in LR but not other stuff.

 

Dan as mentioned in my previous replies a Capture One profile is not the same thing as a camera calibration profile in The Adobe programs.

The OP was asking about Lightoom and the X1 which of course never came with Capture One.

Actually Capture One at one point couldn't recognise the later implementations of DNG at all. I think that has since been corrected.

Any incompatibilities are not Adobe's fault, you are looking in the wrong direction