Action photography with the X1

[pvak]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

For those who still doubt that action photography can't be done with the X1 allow me to submit the following pictures:

 

Skateboard action - a set on Flickr

 

With the camera prefocused at the place of action, the shutter lag is imperceptible. It is easy to capture "The decisive moment" :-)

[leicashot]

For those who still doubt that action photography can't be done with the X1 allow me to submit the following pictures:

 

Skateboard action - a set on Flickr

 

With the camera prefocused at the place of action, the shutter lag is imperceptible. It is easy to capture "The decisive moment" :-)

 

What you're saying is true and it all relates to how rangefinders are used for action.....but....for most people, it's too difficult and too much work. They don't want to do the work, they want the camera to do it for them, to think for them. So when people complain about how primitive Leica cameras are I'm happy for them, cause it keeps Leica a niche product that requires skill, and not for the masses. ;-)

 

A point I made with the M9, although I find it faster with the M9 cause I can focus a bit faster manually than I can Af with the X1.

 

[h00ligan]

I don't think that's a fair assertion. I wouldn't use a saw with a 1 inch blade when for less money I could use a power saw with a three inch blade....as said horses for courses, but the x1 does not excel at action shots compared to a dslr(or even gf1), no matter how you spin it...implying that photographers are lazy or uneducated because they opt for a superior tool for the job is exactly why leicaphiles get a bad name.

 

It's great for other things.

[eelekim]

I prefer the saw with 1-inch blade if I can do it well. I can do it anywhere and anytime. The power saw is useless when power is not available...

 

mike

Still The Moment

[leicashot]

I don't think that's a fair assertion. I wouldn't use a saw with a 1 inch blade when for less money I could use a power saw with a three inch blade....as said horses for courses, but the x1 does not excel at action shots compared to a dslr(or even gf1), no matter how you spin it...implying that photographers are lazy or uneducated because they opt for a superior tool for the job is exactly why leicaphiles get a bad name.

 

It's great for other things.

 

Then why do you own a Leica X1 when you can use a DSLR that can do more? Quite the contradiction.

 

Of course I am generalizing, and most new Leica consumers are buying with little knowledge and the wrong expectations. The Leica is the most misunderstood camera ever made - this from someone who doesn't believe in the so called 'Leica look' - at least with digital. I've been using M's for a long time now (since the Leica M6 hit the scene) and once sold Leica's and even though the main traget group of wealthy amateurs hasn't changed, there are more people buying Leica than ever before, and many are buying with the wrong knowledge and expectations. This was my point.

 

No one is saying it's an action camera, or even that it is capable of doing action as 'easily' as a DSLR, but, in the right hands it's very capable of shooting action....and this is what consumers are forgetting. I've known many amateurs that buy a Canon 1D mark III/IV, possibly one of the most capable cameras in the world for action and turn in poor results. Thus I know many Pros that can shoot with manual cameras and rangefinders better in the same situations.

 

The Leica, while being targeted to amateurs is a camera that requires a lot of patience, experience and technical photographic talent, especially when shooting documentary or action sequences. While I know my way around a Leica, it still tests me and is the only camera I feel I can learn from/with. My Nikon D3s just makes me feel like I'm a bystander looking in...and thats shooting in manual exposure and using the same techniques I learnt from shooting Leica rangefinders. Image quality and slow AF aside, it's the experience with the camera that matters, not the pixel quality and the sooner potential Leica buyers understand that, the better experience they'll have should they decide to purchase one.

 

Since digital everyone is a photographer. Call me a traditionalist but to understand modern day Leica's one needs to understand the history too, before the internet was born and we all were out shooting instead of talking about shooting. I should take my own advice :-)

 

Cheers

[h00ligan]

Again that beginning of the last paragraph is why leicaphiles get a bad name for being elitist snobs. As for me I decided to return the x1 until leica catches up to the current century. The iq was great for a very few things for which it was capable, but for the money there are much more capable cameras out there once you exclude being able to pocket the device, something not done by the majority of people using an x1 since it is a delicate flower.

 

The more people photographing the better. If digital encourages it, great. Maybe we will get new inspiration and techniques from those not bound by acceptable rules. Availability to the masses breeds new and exciting things, the counter opinion is based on fear of the unknown.

 

I don't mean to be rude here, it's just how I feel.

[Guest stnami]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The image on the thread is a a set up shot not a action shot........another silly defence by leicashot, Wrong tool for action, won't take seat of the pants sequence stuff great for other stuff

Leicashot show us your action shots taken when there is no time to procrastinate say a run of 5-6 photos in two minutes max , distances 2 to 10 meters in so so light, frozen action not blurs and you moving around. Please make sure that you don't delete the exif data ie times between shots etc I bet that ain't gonna happen

 

Maybe you don't shoot many images some of us do

[leicashot]

What may sound snobbish to you is someone speaking from experience, and lots of it. Yes I agree that more people shooting will bring about some great results but it also has its disadvantages.

 

The main one is people learning photography from the internet.

 

Anyway you say you're here to learn yet you call me snobbish because you're obviously one of those who bought an X1 and returned it due to not having the knowledge before buying and not having the experience to use it adequately for your purposes. this is nothing to be ashamed of or to get upset over. I'm just pointing out a fact about Leica consumers in general.

 

If you're going to be humble and say you're still learning then you can't turn around, and blame a camera for not turning in the results you expected, and then take it personally. The fact is that the X1 in the hands of an experienced photographer will turn in better results than an inexperienced one, and thats a fact, like it or not - and thats with any camera, only the Leica does require techniques that experienced photographers poses.

 

I'm guessing you're having a little buyers remorse and now wondering if you should have kept it or not. Maybe you should have and pushed yourself to learn ways to overcome the limitations, but that takes discipline and patience. Call me a Leica snob, but this Leica snob has realistic expectations of Leica cameras, knowing that they will always be a challenge for photographers, by not conforming to Canon marketing and build cameras that can do everything in the book for you, including making breakfast.

 

The Leica is a thinking photographers camera and always has been...because of it's simplistic design and thus many 'perceived limitations'. Lastly do you know why so many Leica photographers are good and well known in history? It's because they are forced to think for themselves instead of relying on the camera to do it for them. Call me a Leica snob, but I'm a better photographer for it....and I shoot with a Nikon D3s for 90% of my work and don't currently own a Leica M.

 

Anyway i suggest we both chill out and go take some pictures. I've been in a bad mood lately, and probably just need to relax. They're only cameras at the end of the day. Cheers

[leicashot]

The image on the thread is a a set up shot not a action shot........another silly defence by leicashot, Wrong tool for action, won't take seat of the pants sequence stuff great for other stuff

Leicashot show us your action shots taken when there is no time to procrastinate say a run of 5-6 photos in two minutes max , distances 2 to 10 meters in so so light, frozen action not blurs and you moving around. Please make sure that you don't delete t the exif data ie times between shots etc I bet that ain't gonna happen

 

Maybe you don't shoot many images some of us do

 

Did I say there weren't better camera's for action? The fact is that I've missed many shots with the Leica that I wouldn't have missed had I had a fast DSLR, but where is the fun in having a camera I feel disconnected with?

 

I don't happen to see any action images on your website, and certainly no exif data. Do your research before making such an uneducated accusation please.

 

btw, nice work on your site.

[Guest stnami]

Did I say there weren't better camera's for action?

Where is the part that I mentioned another camera

 

You are doing the talking here Leicashot not me nor is this thread about what I do on my website ( I have a few and all for different purposes, some are open to the public others are for a client or two)

On this thread you have presented an image where you had plenty of time to take a shot, it was an orchestrated shot of a piece of action which is possible with just about any camera even a Horseman field camera or a Sinar( now I am mentioning cameras).

 

ps My film cameras don't write exif data:p

[leicashot]

Where is the part that I mentioned another camera

 

You are doing the talking here Leicashot not me nor is this thread about what I do on my website ( I have a few and all for different purposes, some are open to the public others are for a client or two)

On this thread you have presented an image where you had plenty of time to take a shot, it was an orchestrated shot of a piece of action which is possible with just about any camera even a Horseman field camera or a Sinar( now I am mentioning cameras).

 

ps My film cameras don't write exif data:p

 

My shot was not orchestrated, so again you are making a false assumption. I don't even know what your intentions to post are anyway. Just to discredit the original poster who said he can use the X1 to shoot action, which is true.

 

I used to shoot professional sport and know my way around action photography, of which there are many types. Some that require prefocus, like the poster is talking about, and some that require focus tracking which the X1 is incapable of doing. It doesn't make what I or the original poster is saying any less valid, and you don't seem to have the proof or experience to back up your own claims.

 

lets leave it at that.

 

Again, get your facts straight before making accusations and assumptions.

[Guest stnami]

Leicashot tell me about the shot as to me it all looks set up ..............mentioning of other cameras in the first reply where is it????

I used to shoot professional sport

.... then you should know better than what you present

[leicashot]

Leicashot tell me about the shot as to me it all looks set up ..............mentioning of other cameras in the first reply where is it????

.... then you should know better than what you present

 

seriously what are you talking about? no, never mind.

[Guest stnami]

another no show from leicashot ,,,,,,,,so show us about all this fast shooting............ coupled with school boy mentality like

Lastly do you know why so many Leica photographers are good and well known in history?

 

remember you wrote this

Did I say there weren't better camera's for action?

even though I never mentioned other cameras at that point

 

What has the m9 image got to do with the X1 action capabilities?

[pop]

For those who still doubt that action photography can't be done with the X1 allow me to submit the following pictures: (...)

With the camera prefocused at the place of action, the shutter lag is imperceptible. It is easy to capture "The decisive moment" :-)

 

I agree that it ought to be possible to take pictures with an X1 of people or things in motion.

 

However, the depth of field present in your sample is not wanted or even useful for all kinds of "action shot".

 

Concerning the "decisive moment" I beg to differ. One shows the person from behind. In the other the (rather sharply rendered) window interferes with the arm of the person. With that depth of field, I would have preferred if the person was in front of an uninterrupted part of the wall.

 

... relates to how rangefinders are used for action.....but....for most people, it's too difficult and too much work. They don't want to do the work, they want the camera to do it for them, to think for them. So when people complain about how primitive Leica cameras are I'm happy for them, cause it keeps Leica a niche product that requires skill, and not for the masses. ;-)

 

How does that relate to the X1 and the opinion that it can be used for action shots? The X1 is a finderless camera. How is the X1 primitive or a device requiring skill?

[leicashot]

What is everyone b!tching about? The original poster is simply showing that with pre focusing the X1 is a capable camera for certain types of action. He's saying nothing else, and neither am I. He's not selling it as an action camera either!!!

 

He's not claiming it will be able to do anything other than what he has posted, and I've certainly seen worse pictures posted on this forum.

 

X1 haters, just don't look at this forum, and certainly don't buy it...but most of all just think before making a big deal out of something very simple.

 

Philipp, the X1 is not primitive, but it's focus is slow, yes and it does require skill to acquire such action shots on a camera than cannot track/follow focus for situations that have action such as the X1.

 

It's really that simple.

[eelekim]

leicashot, I don't understand as well. It's pretty funny though.

 

Let's try to stop the stupid b!tching about by saying this: "The AF of X1 is slow as snail. It's the last camera to take any action shots. If it could take any nice action shots, it's all by good luck. Trash X1! Trash X1! It's simply a piece of junk."

 

Happy, guys?

 

Oops! I can see people are queuing up to point their flaming torches against me now...

 

mike

Still The Moment

[leicashot]

Funny how people can get so personal and defensive over an over-engineered light box. Good night all.

[pvak]

Good grief! All this teeth gnashing and hair pulling in of all places, the Leica X1 forum!!!?? And over what, a couple of pictures of my son jumping his skateboard? They were not meant to show the superiority of the X1 as an action camera! Are you kidding me? As Leicashot noted (and thank you for the support) it was only meant to show that IT WAS POSSIBLE and nothing more. Of course it was a "set-up" shot because you can't follow focus with the X1. The focus was pre-set and the action moved into the frame. I did not go for an "artsy" narrow depth of field, nor did I bother to eliminate distracting elements from the background. Who cares? That was not the point! With some forethought and pre-focus one can be in the midst of "action" with the X1 and get the "decisive moment". I have and use my SLR for "action" photography but the X1 is more fun and challenging to get the shot than just banging away with the motor drive of the SLR.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[h00ligan]

What may sound snobbish to you is someone speaking from experience' date=' and lots of it. Yes I agree that more people shooting will bring about some great results but it also has its disadvantages.

 

The main one is people learning photography from the internet.

 

Anyway you say you're here to learn yet you call me snobbish because you're obviously one of those who bought an X1 and returned it due to not having the knowledge before buying and not having the experience to use it adequately for your purposes. this is nothing to be ashamed of or to get upset over. I'm just pointing out a fact about Leica consumers in general.

 

If you're going to be humble and say you're still learning then you can't turn around, and blame a camera for not turning in the results you expected, and then take it personally. The fact is that the X1 in the hands of an experienced photographer will turn in better results than an inexperienced one, and thats a fact, like it or not - and thats with any camera, only the Leica does require techniques that experienced photographers poses.

 

I'm guessing you're having a little buyers remorse and now wondering if you should have kept it or not. Maybe you should have and pushed yourself to learn ways to overcome the limitations, but that takes discipline and patience. Call me a Leica snob, but this Leica snob has realistic expectations of Leica cameras, knowing that they will always be a challenge for photographers, by not conforming to Canon marketing and build cameras that can do everything in the book for you, including making breakfast.

 

The Leica is a thinking photographers camera and always has been...because of it's simplistic design and thus many 'perceived limitations'. Lastly do you know why so many Leica photographers are good and well known in history? It's because they are forced to think for themselves instead of relying on the camera to do it for them. Call me a Leica snob, but I'm a better photographer for it....and I shoot with a Nikon D3s for 90% of my work and don't currently own a Leica M.

 

Anyway i suggest we both chill out and go take some pictures. I've been in a bad mood lately, and probably just need to relax. They're only cameras at the end of the day. Cheers[/quote']

 

Agreed, but your assertions about me are way off, dangerous to assume, and presented somewhat rudely(as I read it). I don't wish to argue however, so we should shake and part on this thread. We agree the x1 is a great camera for some, limitations notwithstanding. As for me it just wasn't the right choice to tie up that much money in a device that makes a great second or third camera. Perhaps when I have more money and experience to put into my new hobby, or if leica fixes some of the technological flaws (beyond af being slow) that will change. For my needs it just wasn't right, right now. I don't blame the camera for anything, I do think leica could have made some different choices in the technology they used that would have been no detriment to the end result, and could have greatly enhanced the experience.

 

I personally don't care how one learns best- if it is in a class, reading books, trial and error, combination of any of these. The exception I took was the disparaging of those less accomplished than yourself who may be limited in how they can learn be it by time constraints, financial means, or anything else. There's always someone better, or if not, someone who will be very shortly - no matter the field.

 

You have some nicew shots on your site btw, well done.