Will the real audience for the S2 please stand-up...

[leicapages]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

"The times they are a-changing". Old Europa is now a museum with old people lamenting over their pensions. Asia is a swinging continent with rich and young people.

 

Things change !

 

Grand Leica store opening in Hong Kong on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

 

I hope this was some sort of humor from your side and not meant seriously or this would be qualified as very offending. Who has financed/supported Leica predominantly over all its past years? Who have been their loyal customers?

 

I have bought into the R8/R9 system heavily since it became available in 1997, a system which now seems to have come to its end of life. That does not imply that it is no longer usable, of course. The true value of a system is, as always, in its actual use and that has not diminished at all. I wish Leica best of luck with the S2, both for their sake and mine (in terms of future support of M and R). But I am not in the market for it. If I want MF qualities, there are other, more proven, options.

 

Pascal

Pascal's Rolleiflex Pages

Pascal's Leica Pages

[Wolf96]

I work now over 15 years in Asia and I have a different picture of there knowledge and interest. All in manager in europe and of course in the USA dream the same dream, they dream that they can produce everything very cheap in Asia and sell it then for a fortune in the western countries. Furthermore a lot of economic expert dont get tired to point out the futue market of 2 Bill. future costumers. I observe that this costumers dont buy Guggi, Rolex etc, they buy instead the copy one.

I join a biking group and there are a lot of branded bikes, actually copies made in china since the original are so expensive. Where actually is the market, at least not in ASIA still the westerner buy all the stuff like me who bought a M9 a few days ago.

[Photoskeptic]

Just waiting for my long lost uncle's will to be read...

[ptomsu]

Went through all this MFDB evaluations in 2009 and finally chose the H system as it come in IQ, versatility and price closest to what I wanted and needed. Had put a lot of hope in the S2, but this system was nowhere in late 2009 and now slowly starts ramping up. If the system would have been pretty complete lats year then I might have bought into it because of the lenses, the form factor of the S2 and because I am a Leica fanboy - still.

 

I did also lot of tests and investigations about the number of MP needed - well I found that 40MP are pretty enough for me even doing artistic, high quality landscape work and lot of panoramas, where one starts stitching single images together. I see 40MP (or 37 in case of the S2) as the current sweet spot in high quality dMF systems, IQ wise and price wise. Sure, 60MP or even more are nice, and it is always great to have some reserves, but in the end of the day I can do all my large format prints with "just" 40MP coming out of my H camera. It is more important to have higher sensitivity with no noise than having 20MP more, so I do hope all the MF vendors will rather follow this path than increasing pixel numbers.

 

The versatility and form factor of the S System are amazing, especially carrying this equipment around all day long. Doing that with a Hassi or Phase becomes pretty soon exhausting if you add 2 or 3 lenses. Here the S2 is a clear winner.

 

Maybe in a year or two from now, when the S System gets to be complete and there are also real wides and TS lenses, then I might consider again a switch. Maybe by then there will be also used S2's around and then the entry price will be more attractive.

 

Meanwhile I am a happy shooter with my H system delivering great results as I need them.

[gogopix]

Peter,

 

As someone who decided for H system after trying S2, your comments ring true on the latter's benefits. Maybe in your comments is a clue to who and why the S2 succeed (and it will, I'll even bet 1EUR on it :-) )

 

I recenbtly trekked with my Contax 645/P65+, and the S2/70 (only that lens). It is amazing how light and easy to swing into use the S2 was, compared to the Contax and Phase back. Weight is only 4.5 vs 5.5 lbs ( about 2 vs 2.5 kilos) but that half kilo was the "straw that broke my back"

 

In reviewing the files I still home in on the Phase 60MP for some shots ... but IQ is the same or better on the S2, and my rabid fanman (at 67 don't dare say 'fanboy' ) of Zeiss designs is too well known.

 

So what was my conclusion? If I can justify it, I will likely look again at the S2 when the lenses are out, keep the Contax for tripod and studio work, and be satisfied with 'merely' 37 MP.

 

In the end, if I can carry the camera and can't raise quickly, I can't get the shot. I have an M9 specifically for those "need something small times

 

why not a MF?

 

Victor

[ptomsu]

Victor,

 

I agree with what you say. I am currently happy with the H3D but whenever the S System is complete and the starting flaws and weaknesses of SW are overcome and the IQ comes out equal or even better compared to my H files, then I might change as well :-)

 

I am a Leica fanboy (still 57 so I dare to say boy :-))) and I know what these Leica lenses can do.

 

And I am also sure that in a few years you will not be stuck with just the S2, because Leica will have the S3 with maybe 50 or 60MP - who knows.

[markowich]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Victor,

 

I agree with what you say. I am currently happy with the H3D but whenever the S System is complete and the starting flaws and weaknesses of SW are overcome and the IQ comes out equal or even better compared to my H files, then I might change as well :-)

 

I am a Leica fanboy (still 57 so I dare to say boy :-))) and I know what these Leica lenses can do.

 

And I am also sure that in a few years you will not be stuck with just the S2, because Leica will have the S3 with maybe 50 or 60MP - who knows.

 

well, we were just choosing gear for a shoot in berlin this coming weekend. mainly street&portrait, event, some architecture/cityscape. ryan air (hand) luggagge restrictions. after a long discussion we excluded the M9, the Hassy, the P65+ alpa and finally the choice was between D3x and D3s. s won over x for speed-this time. 24mm f1.4 + 70-200mm f2.8 VRII. this just tells me that many of my shooting needs do require high isos and nikon still rules there.

in a few weeks it will be india and the gear discussion will recommence...---)))

then it might include the S2---)))

peter

[Constable]

Peter,

 

That is depressing. I'm going out to see what is happening on the streets in Basel during the world cup. It also came down to the choice D3X or D3S ... and the D3S won for the same reasons. My choice is the Zeiss 35 mm as complement.

 

Cheers and enjoy Berlin

 

Ed

[Likaleica]

When this forum started postulating the emergence of the R10 I was so excited I had my doctor place me in a coma and told him to wake me up when the camera was available.

 

When the S2 was announced he woke me up and I was sure I had died and gone to heaven.

 

So, I sold all my camera gear (including my beloved Zeiss 300mm Super Apo Telyt) and am waiting arrival of my S2 with 35mm lens. I have been holding out for the 120 Macro, but my camera guy tells me that is being delayed at least until Fall.

 

Nice to be looking in on this forum again, even if most threads do degenerate into name calling and insults. I see that Doug still is providing great insight!

[c6gowin]

Congratulations Tim. You will enjoy using the S2 as it is a pleasure to shoot. I haven't heard about the delay on the 120mm macro.

[ptomsu]

well, we were just choosing gear for a shoot in berlin this coming weekend. mainly street&portrait, event, some architecture/cityscape. ryan air (hand) luggagge restrictions. after a long discussion we excluded the M9, the Hassy, the P65+ alpa and finally the choice was between D3x and D3s. s won over x for speed-this time. 24mm f1.4 + 70-200mm f2.8 VRII. this just tells me that many of my shooting needs do require high isos and nikon still rules there.

in a few weeks it will be india and the gear discussion will recommence...---)))

then it might include the S2---)))

peter

 

Fully understand that. Since I am back in Nikon with the D700 again, this camera in combination with 1.4/50 and 1.2/50 Nikkor MF is my favorite. I also quite often use the 24-70, still waiting for the 70-200 VRII.

 

I still love my H3D but if it comes to weight, speed and high ISO nothing can top Nikon in the moment.

 

And it tells me another thing - it is not all about MP, sometimes less is more

[markowich]

Peter,

 

That is depressing. I'm going out to see what is happening on the streets in Basel during the world cup. It also came down to the choice D3X or D3S ... and the D3S won for the same reasons. My choice is the Zeiss 35 mm as complement.

 

Cheers and enjoy Berlin

 

Ed

 

Ed, would be nice to get out in Basel today and shoot the fans. Congrats BTW. Peter