X1 skin ailment

[Guest badbob]

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... or maybe they or their sub-contractor economised on production costs and watered down the glue too much

 

An example would be good for illustration. A famous computer mfr. in the mid-1980's, in the early days of laptops, updated their previous design with more memory and features, but they also re-designed the motherboard with tin contacts instead of gold in some low-voltage connections. The design said that it would work, but in the real world it didn't. So many customers, including some VIP's who could afford those early laptops, were stuck with flaky computers that were erasing their data (very bad!).

 

They never admitted to what the cause was, but I had the ear of some of the engineers.

 

It stands to reason that a certain quantity of X1's have gone into the hands of VIP's here and there, and I wonder if any of them have had problems like peeling skins, and what they experienced when they asked for a replacement. Come to think of it, that could explain most of the shortages in the first few months.

[h00ligan]

Leica knows this is an issue, and I happen to agree they should acknowledge it as others would. It's a pity such a high end boutique manufacturer hasn't found a fix nearly a year later for something so simple.

[RichardM8]

This VIP nonsense aside, I have mine for a few weeks and everything looks and feels high quality and solid.

[thomsva]

I fixed the battery door myself, and I will also glue the skin myself when I get a burst of motivation. I wouldn't want to be without the camera for the weeks id would take to send it for repair.

[Guest badbob]

This VIP nonsense aside, I have mine for a few weeks and everything looks and feels high quality and solid.

 

Did you mean that it's nonsense that Leica would give priority to VIP's over the rest of us? It's always the case with any business I've been a part of. Don't expect anyone to admit to it.

[h00ligan]

I fixed the battery door myself, and I will also glue the skin myself when I get a burst of motivation. I wouldn't want to be without the camera for the weeks id would take to send it for repair.

 

What did you do to the battery door out of curiosity?

[thomsva]

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What did you do to the battery door out of curiosity?

 

I did the fix documented here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-x1-forum/122549-door-issue-fixed.html

 

Compared to the photos there I squeezed the metal plate a little less.

[h00ligan]

Cheers Thomas, I hadn't seen that.

[rosuna]

Leica presented this camera in September 2009, but the camera effectively shipped in January 2010 (4 months).

 

I played a bit with it in September 19th, and I didn't like it. It was hate at first sight.

 

The LCD screen wasn't top class. The camera was slow (although it was a pre-production model). The aperture and exposure time wheels were too loose.

 

The digital interface at the back of the camera was absurd (10 buttons, 2 wheels). I didn't like the look and feel of the buttons. The camera is beautiful when seen from the top or from the front, but really ugly from the back. I wonder why Leica did not think on a better (simpler) interface, better arrangement of the controls (at the back) and better and stronger built and assembling. To copy the digital interface of the M8/M9 wasn't a good idea, and the copy isn't good either.

 

I thought Leica was improving the basic design during the last months of 2009, but in November 2009 I had another brief contact with a pre-production model, and I did not notice substantial improvements. It was the same.

 

I like the concept, but there are many things which need not only an update, but a deep rethinking.

[anupmc]

Leica presented this camera in September 2009, but the camera effectively shipped in January 2010 (4 months).

 

I played a bit with it in September 19th, and I didn't like it. It was hate at first sight.

 

..

 

Based on my slightly over a month of actual use of the camera, I'd have to disagree with majority of your post. Compared to other P&S cameras that attempt to be prosumer, IMHO, the Leica X1 is the only one that has actually succeeded. Sure, it could be improved, but so can everything.

[RichardM8]

I see it's X1 bashing time once more...

 

Fascinating to see how many people feel the strong urge to tell the world what Leica has done wrong (and even more funny, seem to 'know'). Wrong choices they've made, what they should be doing etc. As if they are a bunch of morons who threw some parts together by accident and hey look!.... there's a camera on the table! How will wil name it??...

 

The X1 is a very deliberate design that Leica has been working for nearly 3 years. They knew about the slow-ish AF as a result from the sensor, they knew a fixed 35 lens has its limitations, they knew about the medium spec LCD (but that's more than adequate in real world use) but uses about half the power of a fancy 430K pixel screen, they knew the big sensor drinks 3 x more power than the average tiny P&S sensor. Nobody really beliefs Leica did not knew this right?...

 

I think this hilarious and a little pathetic.

 

 

If you don't like the X1 concept and the strong & weak points that come with it, there are thousands of other cameras to choose from.

 

 

Richard.

PS, obviously this doesn't relate to production gremlins seen in the first models and software quirks that Leica should - and I think will - solve.

[rosuna]

The X1 is a very deliberate design that Leica has been working for nearly 3 years. They knew about the slow-ish AF as a result from the sensor, they knew a fixed 35 lens has its limitations, they knew about the medium spec LCD (but that's more than adequate in real world use) but uses about half the power of a fancy 430K pixel screen, they knew the big sensor drinks 3 x more power than the average tiny P&S sensor. Nobody really beliefs Leica did not knew this right?...

 

I think this hilarious and a little pathetic.

 

Really? Take a look at the Panasonic GF1, the Samsung NX10, or the Sony NEX5... or the new EVIL by Nikon (when presented to the public)...

 

They knew, they knew... My point is that if you cannot design a top class product and your target market (and price) is that of the X1, then you have to stop the project.

 

Leica knows how to do it well (the S2 is a proof). It is not a question of comparisons with the competitors, but comparison with Leica real capabilities. If the X1 were a cheap camera I would understand some shortcuts, but it is a very expensive camera.

[RichardM8]

Really? Take a look at the Panasonic GF1, the Samsung NX10, or the Sony NEX5... or the new EVIL by Nikon (when presented to the public)...

 

Apart from the unknown Nikon at this time, none of these cams comes close to the image quality of the X1. Including the Ricoh GRX A12 and Oly m4/3 models.

 

 

My point is that if you cannot design a top class product and your target market (and price) is that of the X1, then you have to stop the project.

 

That is exactly what they did. And the target market buys more X1s than Leica can produce so what exactly is your point?

[barjohn]

Really...I presume you have tested these cameras to know what you are talking about. I have the GXR A-12 and the Sony NEX 5 and have owned the GF-1 among others. I have yet to see any images posted on the X1 that are any better than those produced by the GXR or the NEX 5. Both the GXR and NEX 5 have greater dynamic range and the NEX 5 has even better high ISO performance than the GXR and X1 (X1 claim based on images posted on the web). Further, for a fraction of the price you don't get battery doors that fit poorly, AF that is the slowest of the group, an LCD that is worthless for MF or bright daylight use, slow review and skin shedding itself.

[Dan States]

What a bunch of complainers. Go take some pictures people. If you don't LIKE the X1 don't BUY one...why waste your time and the rest of the worlds bitching about it?

[h00ligan]

Really...I presume you have tested these cameras to know what you are talking about. I have the GXR A-12 and the Sony NEX 5 and have owned the GF-1 among others. I have yet to see any images posted on the X1 that are any better than those produced by the GXR or the NEX 5. Both the GXR and NEX 5 have greater dynamic range and the NEX 5 has even better high ISO performance than the GXR and X1 (X1 claim based on images posted on the web). Further, for a fraction of the price you don't get battery doors that fit poorly, AF that is the slowest of the group, an LCD that is worthless for MF or bright daylight use, slow review and skin shedding itself.

 

I haven't seen any real iso advantage over the x1 from the samples I've seen, however even if there is a modest improvement the high iso of the nex is no good if the image quality stinks - which it has so far with the 2 lenses they are releasing with the unit. additionally, that's a LOT of menu diving.

 

They are very different cameras, but overall i don't see any way someone could rank the nex5 as better. I have never looked into the gxr - 50mm was too narrow for me.

 

The X1 could greatly benefit I think from some improvements for sure, but the one thing it does VERY WELL is image quality - and for a lot of people that's enough.

[barjohn]

All of these new mirror-less APS-C sensor based cameras produce image IQ that is very comparable; however, the NEX 5 has been shown to be just a little better on high ISO. Whether that is enough to move one from one camera to another is a personal choice issue. When it comes to build quality, the GXR is built like a small german tank. The build quality is better than the Sony NEX 5 but the Sony NEX 5 is no slouch in this department either. Where one sees subtle differences are in the battery door (metal and really solid on the GXR and appears to be plastic on the NEX 5, same with pop up flash, etc. The Sony LCD is the best I have seen and really very usable in bright sunlight. The GXR LCD isn't bad but it isn't quite there with the Sony and the tilt feature on the Sony really is nice for composing with the camera down closer to your waist. From what I have read, the X1 suffers from quality issues and the use of lower cost components with the possible exception of its lens design. The dials, covering, battery door and poor display are major negatives in this price range. I would love to do some comparison shots against the NEX 5 and GXR but I'm not willing to plunk down $2K for a camera with all of its problems and areas of poor performance. As to the amount of menu diving required on the NEX 5, I think it depends on how you shoot and how much you need to play with the controls. I haven't seen it to be as much of an issue as DPR made it out to be and neither have many others that are not finally getting to try it for themselves. As good as the UI is on the GXR, I don't find the NEX to be much harder and in some ways it is actually easier to use. Throw in the panorama and HDR capability along with the fast AF and it really starts to step away from the others.

[phancj]

All of these new mirror-less APS-C sensor based cameras produce image IQ that is very comparable; however, the NEX 5 has been shown to be just a little better on high ISO. Whether that is enough to move one from one camera to another is a personal choice issue. When it comes to build quality, the GXR is built like a small german tank. The build quality is better than the Sony NEX 5 but the Sony NEX 5 is no slouch in this department either. Where one sees subtle differences are in the battery door (metal and really solid on the GXR and appears to be plastic on the NEX 5, same with pop up flash, etc. The Sony LCD is the best I have seen and really very usable in bright sunlight. The GXR LCD isn't bad but it isn't quite there with the Sony and the tilt feature on the Sony really is nice for composing with the camera down closer to your waist. From what I have read, the X1 suffers from quality issues and the use of lower cost components with the possible exception of its lens design. The dials, covering, battery door and poor display are major negatives in this price range. I would love to do some comparison shots against the NEX 5 and GXR but I'm not willing to plunk down $2K for a camera with all of its problems and areas of poor performance. As to the amount of menu diving required on the NEX 5, I think it depends on how you shoot and how much you need to play with the controls. I haven't seen it to be as much of an issue as DPR made it out to be and neither have many others that are not finally getting to try it for themselves. As good as the UI is on the GXR, I don't find the NEX to be much harder and in some ways it is actually easier to use. Throw in the panorama and HDR capability along with the fast AF and it really starts to step away from the others.

 

Hey John,

 

User experience and camera preferences are extremely subjective. Battery doors and leatherette issues for some aside, the X1 is magnificent in build and everyone who has handled mine have been impressed at its build quality. As for user experience, I have personally tested the Nex5 as I wanted to buy it for my wife who is a beginner and it didnt work for me. The AF, though faster, missed many occasions, at least 3-5 shots out of the 25-30 shots I saved in my own memory card were out of focus, some way off. The X1 , on the the other hand, has 99.9% of shots sharply focused, slow or not. The kit lenses were atrocious, yes, even the pancake lens. My friend who is a sony sales rep nodded and said there is no comparison. Then there is that "heavy" shutter in the nex5 that was annoying and definitely, the X1 has the most silent and you can't even feel any vibration. Lastly, ALL the images I took under the same conditions with the Nex5 and the 16mm lens could not hold a candle to what the X1 produced. So yes, it is half the price of the X1, but no, I would definitely not buy it for my wife. Which is quite sad really, coz I read that sony supplied the X1 sensor, and the form factor was actually surprisingly excellent (the pancake at least), I felt the balance and grip and all to be comfortable, despite many complaints on the lens being too large (I tried the zoom too). I would wait until the good Zeiss prime E-mount lenses before looking at it again, but the shutter I hope sony will improve on its next rendition.

[phancj]

Yup, it's sad when so many who haven't tried the X1 go around slamming it online. On the other hand, everyone I know who has tried or own the X1 has nothing but praises for it. The user interface, compact size, design, most of all the image quality got to be tried to be believed, and I do not mean just taking a couple shots at the store (if there ever was a trial model given that it is sold out always). This camera seriously grows on you. I have mine since Feb and a lot of shots I have taken I have never achieved with my D300 and prime lenses. Yes, the price is a little steep I felt when I first bought it but since using it, I feel that it is priced right, and I would not mind shelling out for the M9, if only if it has AF, which I feel is necessary for me now (bad eyesight).

 

So people, when looking out for a new camera, talk to users, coz reading and regurgitating reviews (many whom has vested interests) will not help you make the right decision. I highly recommend the X1 for anyone who wants to take great photos in a small package and have fun doing it. Also, recognize how this little camera gets sold out almost everywhere, just like rolex daytonas and other finer things in life (If this comes across as snobbery pls excuse me, but I believe when demand outstrips supply the product must be doing something right).

 

I was trekking behind Namgyal Monastery in north India and took this shot...it was evening at six...

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Douglasco]

barjohn has been criticizing the X1 even before it became available. I took no notice of his comments and purchased one, its a superb compact camera. I tend to take no notice of anyones rantings unless they have owned the camera themselves for a few days.