stunsworth Posted October 31, 2008 Share #221 Posted October 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) And odds are that the most productive persons will be on macs. Not sure what you mean by productive. I've never worked in an office where Macs are used and yet people have been productive on their PCs. Most problems seem to be with the network rather than individual PCs - not that there are many network problems. 'Normal' people don't tune their PCs, they just plug them in and get on with it. The gamer end of the market is a different case, but they are in the minority IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here POLL: Mac or PC. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chuber Posted October 31, 2008 Share #222 Posted October 31, 2008 iMac G5 2Ghz, 2GB RAM, 750GB HDD, Leopard MacBook Air, 1,6Ghz, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD I hate PCs running windows.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernd_muc Posted October 31, 2008 Share #223 Posted October 31, 2008 Vista is the best PC OS so far aesthetically Nicely said and it doesn't crash, or crashes much much less, but since it was never built from the ground up being a secure and safe OSActually, Windows NT, 2000, XP, and Vista could have all been secure and safe if not being the Administrator weren't so inconvenient (like Vista does it now - but still in an inconvenient way). The kernel used to be not bad but it always comes to what you dou with things... and MS messed up. Working with Windows is an annoyance from the first second to the last... I don't want to be annoyed every time that I don't have a virus program... I'm not really interested that it has "found new hardware" when I plug in a USB key - just show it -, and all those other bubble in the lower right corner. Yes, you can work with Windows (actually I really couldn't work with Vista because everything just took hours what other OSes (including XP) do in seconds. I'll just stick with my Mac (which also has a usable command line shell... unlike those DOS things) Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernd_muc Posted October 31, 2008 Share #224 Posted October 31, 2008 I had my MacBook totally freeze on me last night - couldn't tab between applications, coudn't move the mouse pointer. I thought that wasn't supposed to happen? In the end I had to re-boot.Well, shit happens... even on a Mac. But how often does this happen? If it happens often, you might have memory issues (i.e. your MacBook does). Other than that, just turn it off and on again (and watch "The IT Crowd"). I hardly reboot my MacBook Pro, mostly when a system update comes along. But once every leap year, even my MBP needs to be rebooted. Not by far comparable to how often I had to do so with my laptops in my Windows days, despite booting it every day. Cheers, Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 31, 2008 Share #225 Posted October 31, 2008 So much for Macs being bulletproof. 'Idiot proof' were the words you needed ! Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 31, 2008 Share #226 Posted October 31, 2008 Well I am that idiot <grin>. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 31, 2008 Share #227 Posted October 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, shit happens... even on a Mac. But how often does this happen? If it happens often, you might have memory issues (i.e. your MacBook does). Other than that, just turn it off and on again (and watch "The IT Crowd"). I hardly reboot my MacBook Pro, mostly when a system update comes along. But once every leap year, even my MBP needs to be rebooted. Not by far comparable to how often I had to do so with my laptops in my Windows days, despite booting it every day. Cheers, Bernd I've been running Win XP Pro on 7 computers I use, 3 notebooks, all at least 5 years old, and 4 different desktops and none of them ever freeze. My present main photo net browsing Quicken music ripping do everything I need to do desktop I built a little over 2 years ago and to this day it has never crashed, froze or hiccupped. Don't know how a Mac could be any better. It just a tool. Some like Macs some like PC's. I like Leicas and not Nikons or Canons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 31, 2008 Share #228 Posted October 31, 2008 The only computer I have ever had endlessly lock up was the iMac when dl iTunes update amongst the two, three hundred megabyte update package that comes through from Apple every couple of months. Two more updates and that passed. I only have to kill the bastard by switching off at the wall once a month or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted October 31, 2008 Share #229 Posted October 31, 2008 Certainly Apple Macs are excellent products but AFAIK the emphasis is on image related software. If your interest includes more than this area then choice of software becomes an issue. I'm not sure that all 3D CAD design programs work on Mac's. As for security, virus writers always targeted the majority of users to reap the highest numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong here but at the time that viruses became more prevalent Apple macs' had a 1 % share of the computing market. That has risen in line with the use of the ipod to an approx share of 10% ( I seem to recall these figures from articles in PCPRO ). Can anyone remember the 'Month of Apple Bugs'? Summary of the Month of Apple Bugs - heise Security UK BBC NEWS | Technology | Security project focuses on Apple Not hard to guess that I'm a PC user ! Finally which would I prefer to use... gotta be a MAC ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted October 31, 2008 Share #230 Posted October 31, 2008 Mac forever, since the 512 K in 1984. Yes, I'm an old man... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan1212 Posted October 31, 2008 Share #231 Posted October 31, 2008 As for security, virus writers always targeted the majority of users to reap the highest numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong here but at the time that viruses became more prevalent Apple macs' had a 1 % share of the computing market. That has risen in line with the use of the ipod to an approx share of 10% ( I seem to recall these figures from articles in PCPRO ). Can anyone remember the 'Month of Apple Bugs'? A security threat that requires the user to allow a download/installation - never mind to provide the admin password for authentication - does not count as a Virus. It is the same as you handing your keys out to a burglar and then blaming the lock manufacturers for not making a lock able to identify a burglar. The "month of Apple bugs" project was based on this assumption and proved only that the greatest threat to Mac users is....themselves! The whole market-share argument is beginning to wear out these days as even after the Mac's share has changed from 1% to 10% the percentage of malware (code that can actually affect the computer with no user interaction) has stayed at 0% Surely there should be some by now? In the end this argument will go on and on. There is no simple answer to the PC vs MAC argument, which is fine. The fact is that Microsoft wants maximum compatibility (this means writing code that works for every hardware manufacturer out there) and they are simply not very good project managers - see Windows Vista launch -. Whether you will use a PC or a Mac comes down to personal choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted October 31, 2008 Share #232 Posted October 31, 2008 From the Heise web site.... "While some Mac users did not fail to point out that the malicious code only ran with user rights and was therefore not able to do much harm, attackers would nonetheless be able, for example, to delete documents or send spam e-mails with such rights. In addition, Havok and Finisterre published several local privilege escalation holes that could be used to gain root privileges. These holes, in particular, revealed some considerable vulnerabilities in the way Mac OS X issues rights for paths and files. For instance, system programs can be exchanged not only if you are a member of the admin group, but also with restricted user privileges; likewise, arbitrary programs could be saved and then launched by the system's setuid programs. Such flaws have been quite rare in older operating systems like Windows and Linux for several years now." ..... " Users do not even have to be a member of the admin group to get root privileges by manipulating the InputManager. More than a year ago, the Leap.A OS X worm exploited this loophole to launch itself automatically with root privileges. Apple has yet to remedy this problem." Vive la difference..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgio Posted October 31, 2008 Share #233 Posted October 31, 2008 17" Macbook Pro here and a Mac Book Air with SD. Love these Macs. Geo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted October 31, 2008 Share #234 Posted October 31, 2008 Mac since a long long time. I use several iMac intel (last generation) 20" and 24", a MacBook Air, a new Macbook intel and an "old" powerbook G4. BTW My "old collection" may show some LC, Powerbook G3 (the black one) and many other weird kind of Macs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psamson Posted October 31, 2008 Share #235 Posted October 31, 2008 Mac since April, 2007 and my disgust with Vista (see blog below). I have a bias against Vista. I live in greater Seattle and know several people working at Microsoft. One could almost see the train wreck coming in advance. Now Windows 7 is coming, Vista will go the way of Microsoft Bob and Microsoft ME, and Windows 7 will probably become what Vista should have been from day 1. Very happy with the Mac. Still using WinXP for the employer-provided work laptop, and that is very stable. At the end of the day I prefer the Mac. I simply don't have to mess around with it. No drivers to install, etc. I'm not saying it's perfect or bug-free, but honestly I have better things to be doing with my time than playing "test pilot" to resolve software bugs. And I work in Information Technology... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paga Posted October 31, 2008 Share #236 Posted October 31, 2008 MacPro Intel Quad super duper w/ 2x30" Apple flatscreens running CS3 for my M8 MacBook Pro (x2) one for my wife 13" G4 and one for moi 15" Intel We still have a Dual G4 Desktop lying around, unplugged w/ 23" Apple Cinema screen And there is an old Sony PC desktop used for Autocad only by my wife for her work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted October 31, 2008 Share #237 Posted October 31, 2008 Nicely said Actually, Windows NT, 2000, XP, and Vista could have all been secure and safe if not being the Administrator weren't so inconvenient (like Vista does it now - but still in an inconvenient way). The kernel used to be not bad but it always comes to what you dou with things... and MS messed up. Working with Windows is an annoyance from the first second to the last... I don't want to be annoyed every time that I don't have a virus program... I'm not really interested that it has "found new hardware" when I plug in a USB key - just show it -, and all those other bubble in the lower right corner. Yes, you can work with Windows (actually I really couldn't work with Vista because everything just took hours what other OSes (including XP) do in seconds. I'll just stick with my Mac (which also has a usable command line shell... unlike those DOS things) Bernd I forgot about those bubbles... What were they thinking in MS when they created this Chinese torture? Some might say the best vista is the XP pro, but just one look at it and you instantly know how old it is (at least a decade old) and you also get the bubble treatment.. Others will flash the market penetration % to justify virii and malware, yet they fail to realize that the moment that single one moment a virus for OSX is discovered, the individual that managed to penetrate will instantly become famous. And last its all those that claim that a mac is good for art (gfx artists, musicians etc) which is also yet another myth, because the mac is better for office apps mostly because it runs on a more solid and secure OS. Windows Vista or XP is just a platform for good gaming... edit: It just takes someone to watch and compare CEOs of the two companies to see where MS is heading as opposed to Apple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernd_muc Posted October 31, 2008 Share #238 Posted October 31, 2008 Please correct me if I'm wrong here but at the time that viruses became more prevalent Apple macs' had a 1 % share of the computing market.Actually, before Mac OS X - i.e. on the "old" Mac OS 6 - 9 - there were a few viruses and two main anti virus programs. Can anyone remember the 'Month of Apple Bugs'?Yes, I can remember that they had to come up with some quite esoteric stuff to make the month full... With Windows, it would be more like a "Year of Windows Bugs" I've been running Win XP Pro on 7 computers I use, 3 notebooks, all at least 5 years old, and 4 different desktops and none of them ever freeze.How many days in a row do you just put your notebooks to sleep? I remember sleep mode not really working well on Windows laptops until not too long ago... Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernd_muc Posted October 31, 2008 Share #239 Posted October 31, 2008 From the Heise web site.... " Users do not even have to be a member of the admin group to get root privileges by manipulating the InputManager. More than a year ago, the Leap.A OS X worm exploited this loophole to launch itself automatically with root privileges. Apple has yet to remedy this problem." Well... how many Mac OS viruses are out there? Somebody here said one (in numbers: 1). Yes, I know the market share of Mac OS X is not that big but it's growing and hackers usually like the challenge to be first... still, even that one virus was - iirc - written as proof-of-concept (bad enough that it worked, though). On the other hand, any virus can at least delete all user files without becoming the super-user. Getting super-user permissions will allow more damage, of course but if all my files are suddenly gone, I'd reinstall the system anyway... So let's wait and see when the first real viruses will be out in the wild... 10% market share (in the US) should be good enough as bait. Bernd P.S.: Yes... it would be nice if Apple remedied that problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan1212 Posted October 31, 2008 Share #240 Posted October 31, 2008 From the Heise web site.... "While some Mac users did not fail to point out that the malicious code only ran with user rights and was therefore not able to do much harm, attackers would nonetheless be able, for example, to delete documents or send spam e-mails with such rights. In addition, Havok and Finisterre published several local privilege escalation holes that could be used to gain root privileges. These holes, in particular, revealed some considerable vulnerabilities in the way Mac OS X issues rights for paths and files. For instance, system programs can be exchanged not only if you are a member of the admin group, but also with restricted user privileges; likewise, arbitrary programs could be saved and then launched by the system's setuid programs. Such flaws have been quite rare in older operating systems like Windows and Linux for several years now." ..... " Users do not even have to be a member of the admin group to get root privileges by manipulating the InputManager. More than a year ago, the Leap.A OS X worm exploited this loophole to launch itself automatically with root privileges. Apple has yet to remedy this problem." Vive la difference..... Again, the only point that is (sort of) proven is that you can take advantage of loop holes that DO exist in Mac OS (as in every operating system). But that would require social engineering (having a user install or provide you with their password first, whether they are admins or not). Let me see you hack into a UNIX system without having a user account or a user opening the door for you. As I said, this could go on forever and the simple truth is that whatever can get locked, can get unlocked. And as for the not big enough marketshare for hackers to get interested" story...find me one hacker who could break into anything(not only OS X) and refused to do it because there is not enough interest..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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