Strange signs on negatives

[Annibale G.]

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Good morning,

I'm a photographer using mainly a Leica M7 with a Leica Summicron 35mm f/2. I've been using them since 2007 for several times. Recently something bad happend a couple of times in May and the last December. Proofing my film I've noticed something bad in photographs, something like flare and strange signs on them, they're are also on negatives. What are they? Worried for them I've taken off lenses from the camera and I started inspecting it, I've never done it before. I noticed on the rear lenses some tiny kind of stains that I can't remove. Could be that the cause of what happened? Do I have to remove those tiny kind of stains? The official dealer looking at my proof sheets said that the cause should be some light entering at the top of the camera.

What I have to do? I've got to start a new photographic job and I don't want to send my camera back to Solms after what happen last year. ( I sent it for the locked frame counter, they sent me it back after 50 days and the camera was all blocked, shutter, curtains...)

In the attachment you can find scanned images of what I'm talking about form proof sheets.

What do you think?

Waiting for your response.

Thanks

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[andybarton]

It looks like light entering the BOTTOM of the camera, since the images are recorded "upside down". I don't think it's the lens, and shutter problems tend to manifest themselves as vertical lines of over or under exposure. Have you checked the shutter for holes? If you work in very bright sunshine, the sun can burn a hole in a film M shutter curtain.

 

Check the rear door and make sure it is closed properly when attaching the base. It's surprisingly easy to leave it open...

 

Are you using a case, or a M-winder?

[pop]

I rather suspect the lens. Your description of the rear element and the places depicted in your negatives make me think of fungus.

 

There are three scenes in your negatives. In the top two strips the fault looks rather similar from frame to frame. It also looks similar in the frames of the bottom strips. However, the center of the fault lies in a different place in each series.

 

In the bottom series there are also some frames which exhibit light circles around a central flare.

 

I rather think that in the pictures with the fault there was the sun either within the picture or very near the field of view of the lens.

 

Have you any way at all of taking some pictures with another lens? Otherwise, even taking some black ones with the body or lens cap attached might help. Direct your camera at different angles toward the sun.

[Annibale G.]

I 'm using a M winder why?

[Xmas]

Hi

 

The (35mm especially) crons (even in pristine condition) have a tendency to flare so it is necessary to always use the correct hood, and you may have to eschew a filter as well. The type IV cron is the bokey queen but it is the flare king as well... The hood was about GBP 106. (The cron hood is effective even on the preasph lux - Which I use sometimes).

 

If you have a residue on the outer surfaces of a cron then you should avoid scrubbing even with a micro fibre lens cloth. Either send it to a leica specialist for a clean.

 

Or put aside an hour, with a fresh pack of cotton buds (Q tips?) and a glass of filtered tap water, or aqueous based lens cleaner, - a coffee filter will do.

 

Dab a damp to soggy cotton bud at each individual stain, spend 5 mins dabbing at least before a side ways wipe, if you get the water to near to the edge of the glass then you may get water ingress by capilliary and need to send off the lens anyway.

 

Most residues will lift, and youthen need to be careful removing any smears, be gentle take time.

 

Unless you are confident I'd ship it for a clean.

 

If you can see foreign deposits inside the lens even if they are faint you need to send it off.

 

Dont worry about dust or specs of black paint, fog or fungus need prompt attention,

 

You can get a 2nd hand CV f/2.5 35mm (LTM) for GBP 250-300, should be pristine and will kill a cron contra jour, I have three of these, only use the lux when the lighting is more controlled. The Leica asphs are better, the little CV are cheap & nasty but not far behind.

 

If your style is the contra jour as in these scans you need to get the deep (CV) hood with the cheap little CV lens as well.

 

Noel

[martinis]

Not a light leak through the back or bottom as it doesn't occur outside the image area

[menos I M6]

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The flare in the last set on the film is typical for the 35 Cron ASPH.

I struggle with this often in low light with bright sources of light in the frame.

[Xmas]

Sorry Annibale OT alert

 

Hi Menos

 

Do you shoot with a hood and no filter? Are you shooting into studio profiles and Fresnels

 

I've only ever tried the pre-asphs... saves me effort if you tell.

 

Noel

[Annibale G.]

I was using the Uv filter and the hood. That's all. What I have to do?

[menos I M6]

Sorry Annibale OT alert

 

Hi Menos

 

Do you shoot with a hood and no filter? Are you shooting into studio profiles and Fresnels

 

I've only ever tried the pre-asphs... saves me effort if you tell.

 

Noel

 

No filters, always hood with this lens.

It really is a flare machine.

 

It actually shows, how amazing newer lenses like the 50 Lux ASPH or the 28 Cron ASPH are, as you can shoot them violently INTO light sources with just the slightest flare or no destructive flare visible (veiling flare is to a certain extend repairable, the strong shaped flare of the 35 Cron ASPH though are hard to process).

 

If the OP did use indeed filters, I strongly recommend, taking them off with the 35 Cron ASPH and even considering to modify the lens hood, as it can be reportedly made tighter for better light protection.

[menos I M6]

I was using the Uv filter and the hood. That's all. What I have to do?

 

You can try, shooting without the filter (in your case, it does not seem, to improve much with the flare) and consider to try a modified lens hood with this lens, which is tighter and prevents light more efficiently to enter the front element.

 

Here on the forum, I have read about users, who cut a rectangular hole into the flexible front cap for the hood and taping this "mask" to the actual lens hood.

[Xmas]

Hi Menos

 

Thanks real useful.

 

Noel

[Annibale G.]

So, do you suggest not using also filters for black and white? yellow, orange ones..?

No filters at all? Can't I buy a hood properly made?

Don't you think the cause should be as someone said light entering inside the body camera?

Thanks awfully

[menos I M6]

So, do you suggest not using also filters for black and white? yellow, orange ones..?

No filters at all? Can't I buy a hood properly made?

Don't you think the cause should be as someone said light entering inside the body camera?

Thanks awfully

 

I don't think, a light leak is causing this.

I guess, you could judge this better, as you know the lighting in the scene, where you took the photographs.

 

From the little, I can see on the tiny thumbnails, I see a very strong sun blasting just directly from the top edge of the frame into the lens, creating a strong veiling flare, ruining the shot (again, the 35 Cron ASPH is VERY prone to show such flare - another lens under this circumstances would have rendered differently).

 

The last scene shows a more defined, very bright light source (again the sun, partly shaded by the person in front of the frame) creating the very distinctive flare, the 35 Cron is famous for.

 

Leaving the filter off will likely not safe you in such situations with this lens.

It could slightly improve. Don't sweat the filter.

 

Use another lens or/ and prevent to shoot into the sun ;-)

 

In any way, you reminded me, to not forget, to search for some lens hoods, that were on my shopping list for a while ;-)

 

I remember, taking a similarly crazy shot into the sun lately - I'll upload it later, to show you, how another lens possibly handles such kamikaze lighting.

[Xmas]

So, do you suggest not using also filters for black and white? yellow, orange ones..?

No filters at all? Can't I buy a hood properly made?

Don't you think the cause should be as someone said light entering inside the body camera?

Thanks awfully

Hi

 

It looks like flare, if it was a light leak it would have appeared more frequently and more randomly, i.e. not just in two samples of contra jour.

 

If you omit filters, uv, yellow, orange etc. it may help a little, but I don't use my summilux when the light conditions are not controlled, unless I want high key effects, e.g. flare.

 

A filter will tend to give a double image of the offending light source.

 

If you frequently require to shoot with light sources in frame then the 'cron can be used for part exchange, but you dont seem to have this problem that frequently. I kept my lox.

 

I'm in same boat I need to borrow an M8 and do some experiments, then repeat with a film M. The dig camera will have additional reflection from the sensor which effect will be less or different from a film camera.

 

Noel

[wizard]

Not a light leak through the back or bottom as it doesn't occur outside the image area

 

Very good point. It could indeed be lens flare, likely magnified by using a filter. I have had pretty strong flare with my Summicron IV 35mm when there was strong light entering the front of the lens obliquely and just outside of the actual picture area, but never with my Summicron 35 asph. That lens is as flare resistant as it gets, but I may be lucky with my copy given what others have posted.

 

Try to do some test shots with and without filter to find out whether that influences the results. I'd have a talk with Leica if my Summicron asph. flared so badly (assuming it is flare).

 

Andy

[Xmas]

Hi

 

If the optics are not clean, that would compromise the contra jour performance, which cron have you got, the serial number nnnnnxx will do

 

Was the lens clean when you got it?.

 

Noel

[mdozier]

I'm no expert but if you look carefully in frames 31-34 you can see a stratification of the light /flare that looks like it could be a reflectance perhaps between the filter and lens element.

 

Additionally frame 35 curiously does not exhibit the same effect then it reappears in frame 36 which could be caused by an external obstruction of the light source by one of the subjects at frame 35.

 

As I mentioned I'm no expert but to me it does seem to be flare which may have been enhanced by the filter.

 

jmo,

 

matt

 

btw, I use a Leica brand uv filter and the factory hood on my 35'cron and I don't have much flare problems fwiw...

 

good luck,

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