infrared shooting

[mdozier]

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I am interested in experimenting with some infrared. I have done a bit of searching on the web and haven't really found any beginner or simplistic, basic info.

 

Could you good folks help recommend some good basic books or sites for me? I'll be shooting with an MP and one of my 35's or 50's; I haven't really been able to find a good resource for interpreting filter and stop adjustments relative to meter readings. Is there a way to use the internal meter? I have my trusty Luna Pro but either way I'll need education.

 

I also would like to process it myself if possible but again, I haven't really found any good straight forward "how to" info on this either.

 

Thanks for any advice / council.

 

matt

[richam]

I am interested in experimenting with some infrared. I have done a bit of searching on the web and haven't really found any beginner or simplistic, basic info.

 

Could you good folks help recommend some good basic books or sites for me? I'll be shooting with an MP and one of my 35's or 50's; I haven't really been able to find a good resource for interpreting filter and stop adjustments relative to meter readings. Is there a way to use the internal meter? I have my trusty Luna Pro but either way I'll need education.

 

I also would like to process it myself if possible but again, I haven't really found any good straight forward "how to" info on this either.

 

Thanks for any advice / council.

 

matt

 

The problem with meters is that they are all designed to measure visible light. If you put an IR pass filter on your lens, it cuts out most of the visible light. So there's no consistent way to determine how infrared will affect the internal meter. I've found differences between my M6, MP, and M7 as to how the meter behaves behind the filter. Better to use an external meter if you are addicted to meters. But they still measure visible light, so can give you only an approximation of what IR is there. I've done just as well if not better without a meter. If you use Kodak HIE with an opaque IR filter (B+W 093 or equivalent), I like to set about f11 and 1/125 second in bright sunlight, or equivalent exposure. This equates to about ISO 25 or 50 for external metering. A deep red filter (B+W 092 or equivalent) might work better with ISO 100 or 200 metering. It's always good to bracket to make sure (although this is expensive with HIE). Most other IR films have less IR sensitivity, so an opaque IR pass filter might not work. You need to check the manufacturer's data sheets to make sure.

 

You also need to remember focus. Some lenses have an "r" mark that shows the IR offset; otherwise, you can use the f5.6 right hyperfocal marker. After normal focus, you shift the lens from the normal (visible light) center focus marker to the "r" or right f5.6 hyperfocal marker. This will get you close to the correct focus, but you still need to keep the lens stopped down to cover any focus errors. I don't like to open the lens up wider than f8; f11 is my preferred stop.

 

As far as development is concerned, it's normal B&W processing. If you use Kodak HIE, it has a thick base that may be difficult to load from edges in on plastic reels. I have had no problems using my stainless reels. The old Maco 820c (now Rollei, I understand) has an anti-halation backing which is soft and also difficult to load on plastic reels. It recommends a pre-soak to remove the green anti-halation backing. I always did this but I understand it's not necessary if you don't care if your developer turns green -- for example you use a one shot developer.

 

I've bought several books on the subject but seldom refer to them and don't recommend any particular one. The manufacturer's data sheet packed with the film plus the above basics should get you started just fine. Once you get the hang of it, I'd suggest viewing online IR portfolios to provide inspiration and show you what "arty" things can be done with the technique. Good luck.

[mdozier]

Thanks so much Michael.

I don't see any "r" markings on my lens but the shift to the 5.6 mark is easy enough. Since I will process it myself, I think I'll play with a couple of rolls and get the manufacturer sheets as a guide. At least I'll be learning with only the film costs as an education expense.

 

Thanks again for the instructive information and assistance.

 

Matt

[martha]

Matt:

 

Good luck finding any Kodak HIE. The companydiscontinued it some months ago, but there MAY be pockets of it refridgerated around.

 

I have just tested Efke IR820.

 

Without a filter it responds as a 100 ASA film would.

 

With a dark red B&W 091 filter attached, it tested out to ASA 25 with little or no infrared effect.

 

With an opaque B&W 093 filter attached, it tested more like an ASA 1 or 2; in other words, you will probably need a tripod for slooooow shutter speeds. The IR effect was good.

 

I developed in D76 at 50% more than recommended (for more contrast), that is, for 12 minutes with minimal agitation (30 seconds to start, at 9 minutes, 6 minutes, 3minutes.) Apparently agitation causes scratches and artifacts with this particular film.

 

So, good luck! That's my two cents worth.

 

Have fun.--martha

[richam]

Matt:

 

With a dark red B&W 091 filter attached, it tested out to ASA 25 with little or no infrared effect.

 

With an opaque B&W 093 filter attached, it tested more like an ASA 1 or 2; in other words, you will probably need a tripod for slooooow shutter speeds. The IR effect was good.

 

martha, this sounds like the old Maco 820c; perhaps a very similar formula. Did you try an 092 filter? I had some success with it. And does it have an anti-halation backing?

[richam]

Thanks so much Michael.

I don't see any "r" markings on my lens but the shift to the 5.6 mark is easy enough. Since I will process it myself, I think I'll play with a couple of rolls and get the manufacturer sheets as a guide. At least I'll be learning with only the film costs as an education expense.

Matt

 

I made my comment about the f5.6 mark based on my experience with Kodak HIE. If you use another, less IR sensitive film, there may not be quite so much offset. If you are experimenting, you might want to fully open the lens and take a few focus bracket shots with different offsets. Then you will know the optimum for that lens, filter, and film combination.

[martha]

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martha, this sounds like the old Maco 820c; perhaps a very similar formula. Did you try an 092 filter? I had some success with it. And does it have an anti-halation backing?

 

Hi Rich:

 

No, sinply because I don't own one. Would have, though, if in my possession. Oh well!

 

As far as the 5.6 focus mark is concerned, that's what I always used with HIE and with my recent tests, I was using a 28mm lens, focused to infinity and adjusted using the 5.6 mark. No focus issues, but then again, it WAS a wide lens! I am going to be testing with my VC 40, 1,4, later today and will make a point of a closer focus image and see if any focussing problems result. I'll let you all know.

 

This discussion has been very helpful, folks, and I thank you!

[mdozier]

Thank you both for the help.

 

I was planning to use a 35 cron or 35 lux. So after I find some film I can experiment with focus offset. It sounds like it may take me several rolls to learn.

 

I'm pretty sure our local pro shop had some HIE some time back but I could be mistaken. I know they've got some IR film as they mentioned it on a previous visit.

 

I'll have to order filters. (We don't have any Leica shops anywhere near so proper filter sizes are a rare find locally.) Is it your experience that the film recommends a particular filter or should I just go ahead and get a couple in advance?

 

Thanks again for all the aid.

 

Matt

[christoph_d]

Matt,

 

I asked the question wrt. focus to Leica some time ago.

According to them, Apochromatic corrected lenses are corrected also for use with IR films, so can be used just in the normal way.

Other lenses are corrected to visible light only, so the focus must be adjusted for use with IR films.

Markings as they were used in the past are currently not added to the lenses, as they only apply to the combination of a specific filter with a specific spectral sensitivity of one film.

Therefore tests have to be performed to find the exact change in focal adjustment for any specific film/lens/filter combination. As a starting point an elongation factor of 1/200 to 1/400 of the used focal length is taken. For a 35mm lens you could start with focusing on 10,5 m (300*35mm) instead of infinity, for a 50mm lens 15m, for a 90mm lens 27 m etc. After having developed a first film it should be easily possible to determine the right adjustments...

 

Hope this helps,

 

Best regards

 

Christoph

[martha]

Thank you both for the help.

 

I was planning to use a 35 cron or 35 lux. So after I find some film I can experiment with focus offset. It sounds like it may take me several rolls to learn.

 

I'm pretty sure our local pro shop had some HIE some time back but I could be mistaken. I know they've got some IR film as they mentioned it on a previous visit.

 

I'll have to order filters. (We don't have any Leica shops anywhere near so proper filter sizes are a rare find locally.) Is it your experience that the film recommends a particular filter or should I just go ahead and get a couple in advance?

 

Thanks again for all the aid.

 

Matt

 

Matt:

 

I have used the HIE with B&W 91 (dark red) and B&W 93 (black or opaque) and had nice IR effects.

 

I have just tested the Efke with both filters and only got the IR effect with the 93.

 

Fotohuis, on another thread on this forum, has said that he has had success with a HeliopanRG715 filter with the Rollei 820/400 film.

 

I have not tested the Rollei, because I haven't been able to get it locally, but am planning on ordering.

 

Please know that the B&W 93 filter is an expensive item, so I wouldn't rush out and buy it unless you're committed to IR. Just a thought....

 

Good luck.

 

martha

[mdozier]

Thanks for the advice Martha, I've been following your other thread as well.

 

And thanks Christoph for the simple formula.

 

I'm trying to get some IR film this week and we'll see.

 

Thanks again,

m