neopan 400 question

[cheewai_m6]

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i've got quite a few rolls of neopan 400 to shoot. i've never shot with neopan before, so i looked in the photo forum at neopan 400 shots. i saw a lot of neopan 1600 and 400. a lot of the 400 has very little or practically no grain at all. sharp images. a lot of the 1600 has very fine grain. yet, a few 400 shots are quite grainy. why is this?

 

is it because of the developing process? is it because once it's underexposed, it grains up a lot more? i noticed kodak cn400 does this.

 

if anyone has experience with neopan 400, is it better to shoot at iso 320? does it have more lattitude to being overexposed than underexposed? i'm going to be shooting abandoned warehouses soon, so a little bit of grain i won't mind.

[batmobile]

I have used a lot of Neopan 400 (my main film) and would say this:

 

It is fine grained. More so than Tri X, HP5 etc and only a little more coarse than D400.

If you have seen very grainy images this may be from use of rodinal which some like with this film despite the grain. It could also be due to exposure and development errors.

 

I would recommend basic, simple developers with this film. Xtol is my favourite at 1+2. You get crisp grain that is relatively fine, good speed and pleasant tonality. DDX is also good. Both give very good speed.

 

As for rating, it depends on technique, camera etc. Im my Leicas I rate it at 320 for a averagely bright setting, 250 for strong edgy light with deep shadows (or even 200 when the sun is low and hard) and 400 when the light is flat (all Xtol 1+1 or 1+2). I rate it the same in DDX 1+7. In D76 1+1 IO would knock 2/3 stop off.

 

Contrary to some others I find it makes no less speed than TriX.

 

It handles a little over and under exposure just fine.

 

It has a bit of a shoulder which is good in high contrast situations.

 

The look is somewhere between TriX and a more modern film like D400.

 

Resolution is considerably better than TriX.

 

It does not push as well as TriX.

 

If you like Neopan 400 and want more speed, use the 1600 and rate it one stop and no more faster than the 400 (experiment for dev times) to get comparable shadow detail. The images could be displayed next to each other and the look will be fairly similar.

 

Neopan 1600 is incredible in Xtol 1+2. Also very good in DDX but with a touch more grain.

 

Enjoy!

[Mab]

Neopan 400 is perfectly fine with Rodinal. The trick to get less grain and good tonality is simply to decrease the amount of agitation.

 

Try this: Shoot Neopan 400 at box speed. Soup it in Rodinal 1:50 for 13min 30sec. Initial agitation for the first 30 sec and then three inserts at the 9min, 6min and 3min marks.

[cheewai_m6]

thanks for the reply guys, unfortunately, i don't do any developing. i don't know how to, and i don't have a dark room etc. i have to go to a shop to get that done. but i guess i can try to request them to not use something that would be grainy. thanks anyway

[nhabedi]

thanks for the reply guys, unfortunately, i don't do any developing. i don't know how to, and i don't have a dark room etc.

 

I've recently started to do my own film development again after a break of more than ten years. Just some thoughts:

 

• You don't need a darkroom. For film development you just need a changing bag. Everything else can be done in your kitchen or bathroom - that's how I do it.
  
• There's not much to learn. Of course, you can work on refining your skills for the rest of your life, but the basic process is dead easy and there are tons of explanations all over the Web. This forum is also very helpful.
  
• It's not expensive. You need to make some initial investments (but not much, it was less than 100 Euros in my case, including chemistry), but in the long run it's cheaper than carrying your film to a lab.
  

[kenneth]

Neopan 400 is perfectly fine with Rodinal. The trick to get less grain and good tonality is simply to decrease the amount of agitation.

 

Try this: Shoot Neopan 400 at box speed. Soup it in Rodinal 1:50 for 13min 30sec. Initial agitation for the first 30 sec and then three inserts at the 9min, 6min and 3min marks.

 

Thanks for this. I had always, wrongly assumed that Neopan was a C41 film and could only be processed as colour film. Good to hear that it can be processed with Rodinal. As photographers we should say a thousand thank you's to the inventor of that wonderful developer every night before retiring

[nhabedi]

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Good to hear that it can be processed with Rodinal. As photographers we should say a thousand thank you's to the inventor of that wonderful developer every night before retiring

 

Patented by Dr. Momme Andresen in 1891 for Agfa and the first product the company ever sold - for those who don't know. Amazing how old this stuff is...

[Xmas]

Hi

 

If you attend local camera clubs you should be able to get the home processing kit for free except for perishable chemicals, but hurry you need to get there before the last one goes digital.

 

Noel

[Bostrom]

My favourite film!

My method:

Expose after EI 250

Rodinal 1+100

Agitate 10 seconds at start

Stand for 47 minutes

Fix, rinse, dry and voila!

 

/Per

[Xmas]

Hi

 

In abstract

 

CN41 will perform better if you increase exposure, Neo 400 better if you reduce exposure,because the processig mechanism is different, the CN41 will have more exposure latitude.

 

Neo 400 is not a fine grain film, Rodinal is not a fine grain developer, and you need to try and avoid overexposure, but it you need 400 speed it is a resonable compromise. If you dont like the grain or the shorter exposure range CN41.

 

Grain is dependent primarily on the film, but a fine grain developer will help Neo 400 a little. The grain apparent is dependent on the subject i.e. is is easier to see grain in some subjects, less so in others.

 

The distraction of grain is subjective to a degree as well.

 

Noel

[cheewai_m6]

some of the feedback contradicts each other. i will find out friday when i get the negs back. i did rate the film at 320, i'll see how it goes. hopefully they're not ruined and still usable. i'll obviously learn from what happens with this film, and how this lot develops it.

[batmobile]

Rated at 320 with rodinal the negs might be a little iunder exposed I suspect but if you were shooting the abandones warehouse that might work fine. I find 320 and 400 are good speeds in flatter light with fast developers like DDX/Xtol. I would go for about 200-250 in D76 1+1 for example.

 

Contrary to an earlier post, Neopan 400 is a fine grain film for its speed in that as a traditional film it is finer in grain than any other of its speed in my experience and very close to Delta 400 (which is a wholly different generation and look). In Xtol 1+1 it is closer to FP4+ in grain than it is HP5.

 

I know some love this film in Rodinal, but I would reserve this for when you want grain (like perhaps with the warehouse). IMHO this is a very poor choice of developer for general use in 35mm. If you find yourself liking this film (and do take the trouble to experiment a little) you'll get great results in anmy of teh standard developers.

[Guest cweg]

These are my first results with Neopan 400@400 in Rodinal 1+50 11min Agitation for the first minute then every 3 times each minute until minute 9. I like the fine grain but will give it a try with Emofin cause I like the Look very much.