ckli Posted January 22, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 22, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Is pre-soak necessary for modern films? The films in questions are: Kodak T-Max 100, 400 and Tri-X. Thanks. CK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Hi ckli, Take a look here Is Pre-soak necessary?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted January 22, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 22, 2010 I never bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted January 22, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 22, 2010 I think its not necessary to remove the A-H dye that comes out of some older films if you are developing some of the "modern" films but I do it as (a) it helps maintain a constant temperature and (b0 it doesn't do any harm and costs nothing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 22, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 22, 2010 Hi A presoak is not necessary, but if you do one you need to make sure the temperature of the dev is similar. A stop bath is also not necessary but it is desirable to keep the wash water you use instead of the stop bath at the same temperature. I normally use 68F for dev, wash and stop holding the wash and stop +- 2C of previous stage modern emulsions are prehardened, and wont mind a small thermal shock. It is not necessary to rap the tank on the bench, a quick swirl or inversion should dislodge bubbles. Plastic tanks have been known to break... Wear a pair of washing up gloves, while there is a risk of any contact with dev, the allergy you can get is annoying. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted January 22, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 22, 2010 I never bothered. Amen. And I've been at this some 55 years. The only time I used a pre-soak was with a film (Maco 820c) that had a green anti-halation backing. I understand even this is not necessary if you don't mind your developer turning green. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 23, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 23, 2010 Some color film processes are designed with a presoak included (sometimes just water - sometimes an actual preconditioner chemical). In that case, it is necessary, since it will affect how quickly the developer penetrates the various color layers, and will lead to color shifts/imbalances if left out. For single-layer B&W emulsions, about all it does is allow the development process to 'ramp up" smoothly. Useful if one is filling an 8-reel tank and doesn't want the bottom rolls to be 1/4 developed by the time the top rolls are covered. I've never used presoak for B&W. I have used "water-bath" techniques at the end of the development step to bring up the shadow detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antistatic Posted January 23, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) No Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 23, 2010 Share #8 Posted January 23, 2010 The only time I would pre-soak is if I were working in a room significantly cooler than 20C. This would be to pre-warm the tank, to prevent the developer losing temperature too quickly. Given the generally temperate climate where I live, this is not necessary. All my colour work is done in a water bath, so that takes care of everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted January 23, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 23, 2010 I've never done it. I've heard it can help with large format to prevent uneven development when put in the dev (in trays maybe?), but for roll film, I've never had any issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 23, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 23, 2010 It may actually harm the film in that there are agents to promote fast & uniform absorbtion of developer which a presoak will remove. Efke is the only film manuafacturer recommending it and I never used it for that. If it were required, Kodak and Ilford would list it as a processing step. They do not. Uniform quick absorbtion of flm developer is achieved by fast immersion and bringing the wet/dry edge across the film quickly and uniformly with no back tracking. Patterson tanks quick fill from bottom up achieving this without fail. A loaded stainless reel is best dropped into a tank prefilled with developer, cap and invert innediately. All other methods cause POTENTIAL problems which you will fiind if you do it long enough. The bigger tank, the faster you will find them. That is why the large ones were furnished with lifting rods. Hand interleaved sheet film NEEDS a presoal to keep the sheets from sticking in the developer. This is the only current need for it. Single sheets in a tray do not require it. Patterson Super System 4 tanks are perfect never miss if you follow the directions. Pour in , use twist rod for first agitation only, cap and invert. Used tanks may not have all the parts so beware. The rod should not be used past the first agitation as it is non uniform so the edges will get more density than the center. Storing the cap on the tank will make it stretch and leak. Agitation need to be vigorous and random to bring fresh developer to all parts of the developing film. Gentle agaitation to control contrast will mark film. That is what your clock is for, controling contrast. Deviate any of this at your own peril. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted January 23, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 23, 2010 no---complete BS Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_s Posted March 3, 2010 Share #12 Posted March 3, 2010 I didn't presoak for 40 years. Now I do presoak 120 film (Neopan400) because I was getting some faint discs of underdevelopment (not really airbells) which I could not prevent by the usual methods of agittion, rapping the tank etc. The following might be the explanation: Presoak - Silvergrain Labs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted March 3, 2010 Share #13 Posted March 3, 2010 Some people reuse their developer and work from a stock bottle. Rather than clouding it up pre soak to remove the stains. If you one shot your developer then it doesnt matter what you do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiZZ Posted March 3, 2010 Share #14 Posted March 3, 2010 I presoak my 120. Ilford MF has a layer that washes outs and turns the water purple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mann61 Posted March 3, 2010 Share #15 Posted March 3, 2010 I presoak my 120. Ilford MF has a layer that washes outs and turns the water purple. Hi there.Yes I always pre-soak.The reason is to do with making the next stage-the developer-spread evenly on the film at the start.You don't need to bang and shake the tank so vigorously initially. Dunno if it works but I've always done it. Ta DM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted March 4, 2010 Share #16 Posted March 4, 2010 One of my tanks was previously owned by a tank banger, it has bits missing from base. I not recommend banging the Patterson plastic tanks, they can crack and leak, fluid and darkness.... Never had any bubble problems with a quick swirl with the swirl stick, never invert either. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 4, 2010 Share #17 Posted March 4, 2010 Only if you plan on hand interleaving sheet film which will stick if not already wet. It may actually impede uniform absorbtion of developer on some films. What is important is the film must be immersed in the developer quickly and with the wet/dry edge proceeding across the film as fast as possible without backing up or stopping. The Patterson or Spanish tanks meet this criteria because they fill bottom up thru a funnel. Stainless is best prefilled with developer and the film dropped in in the dark. Cap and invert. Agitation needs to be vigorous and random. Gentle agitation can make "surge marks" that are not surges at all, but areas that get normal replenishment by agitation and the thin area are not sufficiently replanished resulting inl get areas of uneven density. The most common sign is high density on the edges and thin in the middle, but other patters can and do appear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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