Metz 54MZ-4 Flash on an M8

[jevidon]

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I bought a Metz 54 MZ4 and a SCA 3502 adapter. It will not flash when set on TTL, but as has been said, it works when set on GNC. The only problem is that GNC is only available when the flash is first set to M (manual) as per the instructions. On that setting, the flash recognizes the lens focal length, but I only get a decent exposure with the lens set wide open (in this case 35mm @ f2). If I set the aperture any smaller, it under exposes which is not surprising since the flash was set to M as well as GNC.

 

How do I get it to operate as a TTL so the flash adjusts it's power as the TTL in-camera meter dictates?

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[amedick]

When you place the system in GNC mode the camera takes control and automates the process, very misleading the flash M terminlogy.

 

You need to make sure that you have screed down the flash mounting ring, but do not overtighten, for proper electrical contact engagement between flash and M8.

 

When you take a picture you need to slowly press, or in two stages press the shutter release, to make sure flash and camera are awake and in sync with each other.

 

If you are using the 3502 sca shoe, version 4 or 5 ( usually you will see a small White sticker saying M4 or M5), it should work. You will notice a pre flash followed by a stronger main flash.

 

Hope this helps.

 

John

[jevidon]

John,

Thanks. it seems to work as you described. However, I noticed that there is a limited range of f stops that wil give a good exposure even when I set the camera ISO to automatic. It seems to work well between f2.8 and f5.6 with over exposure at larger openings and under exposure at smaller openings. I didn't note in the instruction book that the flash in GNC mode has an optimum f stop range.

Now that may be a problem with adapting a flash that was designed to work with fully automatic SLR's tat will auto-focus and auto f stop. It may be that using it on an aperture priority camera like the Leica, that we won't get the TTL over the full range of f stops. Do you have any comments?

Jim

[amedick]

Hi Jim

 

The few pictures I have shot at 5.6 and 8 seemed to be ok. The times it has not worked I assumed it was a power problem, with the preflash, optional Metz diffuser, or bouncing off ceiling using up the available power. But you have me now rethinking if this is correct, I will watch out for the effect you are describing.

 

I have noticed the effect you mention, of over exposure when using lens fairly open, with subject fairly close. Becasue there is no dial in compensation in flash, I have tended to shoot in A mode. In A mode see same effect, close distances over exposure, so adjust the lens by adding up to a stop.

 

In the owners manual, nothing is mentioned about a optimal setting, and in theory with GNC I would imagine any stop should work, power permitting.

 

I have not found GNC to be the optimal for using this flash, I see the issue as maturity of firmware implementation of camera and flash. Found the manual and terminology hard to understand.

 

Hope this helps.

 

John

[Nicoleica]

John,

 

If you are using 'A' or 'M' mode, then you must set an appropriate aperture for the distance on the camera. In 'A' mode, you should set the aperture on the lens to match the one you have chosen on the flash for the desired distance, or vice versa. In 'M' mode, you should calculate the appropriate aperture using the guide-number and the distance. Otherwise you will get over/under exposed flash photographs.

[amedick]

Nicole,

 

Thanks. What you describe is what I do in A mode. However still find that when subjects are close I get an overexposed image, and need to add up to a stop on the lens to correct.

 

Sorry, should have been clearer in my reply to Jim on the A mode.

 

Regards

 

John

[Nicoleica]

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Hi John.

 

Thanks for the reply. It could be that in 'A' mode you are needing to use a smaller aperture due to the distance being less than the minimum for the chosen aperture setting on the flash. Most flashes show you the minimum and maximum distances that the auto range covers. If your distance is outside of this range, then the best bet may be to manually calculate the needed aperture and use 'M' mode.

[wparsonsgisnet]

The M8 will NOT do TTL, only GNC.

 

I, too, find the M8 unsatisfactory in the GNC mode with the Metz 54. I usually got dim exposures (not enuf light) and also I don't like pre-flash: it usually ruins portraits, especially candid's.

 

I like the 54 a lot and use it in Auto mode. The M8 works well in this mode with the aperture set to a nice f5.6 or f8.

[jevidon]

John, Bill and Nicole,

 

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I have come to the conclusion that while GNC is the proper setting on the M8 for TTL, it has very limited capacity in this mode. Needless to say, I am disappointed since I had expected the MZ-4 to be a fully functional flash in TTL (GNC) mode on the M8.

 

I suspect that since the unit was probably designed for use on the fully automatic/semi-automatic SLR's whether in A, S or Auto modes, it was not intended for use on automatic A mode cameras with manual focus like the M8. The SCA adapter is, therefore a compromise design to allow the MZ-4 to function somewhat in TTL (GNC), but really works better in the A mode.

 

To have a fully functional TTL mode flash on the M8/M9, one has to bite the bullet and spend $6-700 for the Leica SF58. I don't intend to do that. Flash on a Leica is a sometimes thing and not worth it to me to purchase the highly priced SF58.

 

So, with some slight disappointment about the limited TTL performance of the MZ-4 on the M8, I will probably use it mostly in the A mode, which works extremely well with lots of power. It really is a good unit, and now that I have it, I'll probably purchase the SCA module for my Nikon D300 where it will, no doubt function in TTL with all of its bells and whistles as Metz probably intended. Then I will have a powerful flash that will work for both cameras.

 

Jim

[Photon42]

The Metz flash is just not 100% compatible with either Leica or Nikon. Yes, with Nikon, TTL works well wired, but it won't for example support Nikons IR control. I don't know if this counts for you. On the M8, I have only used the flash in A mode, as the second reflector won't fire in TTL and the pre-flash is most annoying.

 

Regards

Ivo

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jim,

 

I am VERY pleased with the Metz 54 and my M8/9's. As you say, it's got lots of power. I use it with a Quantum 2X2 battery pack and plan to acquire a second one of these for my next wedding gig.

 

TTL would be nice, and reportedly works with the 58 flash. However, I don't like the pre-flash that the GNC requires.

 

My only real complaint with the 54 is the fact that the cord of the remote is too short. I also feel like I'm going to break something in the 3502 every time I switch the interface unit between the flash and the remote cord.

 

I think some people at Metz must be asleep, based on what has been posted here about the Nikon and Canon flashes. I know the pro cameras from those 2 guys do lots of complicated things in the way they compute exposure, including flash, but surely Metz could bring out those features that fit their stable of tricks.

 

For example, not much has happened in the photo world regarding TTL between the times that the 54 and the 58 arrived. So, why no TTL with the 54?

 

Still, *loads* of power. Metz got that right.

[jevidon]

I just ran into a new problem as a new Metz 54MZ-4 user. The default f stop (represented by the iris on the LCD screen) is f 45.

 

If I set it at, say, f8 or f11 by rotating the wheel and pushing it to lock it in and then shoot, it immediately goes back to the default f 45 setting for the next shot.

 

Most annoying, if I have to reset the f stop each time before I shoot!

 

I'm sure that the good people at Metz did not intend this to occur, so i'm probably doing, or not doing something I shouldn't. The owners manual is a masterpiece of confusion.

 

Does anyone have an answer?

 

Jim

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jim, where is your shutter speed set? Do you have it set on Automatic?

 

For the M8 set it to 1/250; for the 8.x, to 1/180. These are the max speeds.

 

The 54 reads this from your camera and set the "aperture" accordingly.

[amedick]

Jim

 

I had a similar symptom with my M9 last week. In fact, added to what you mention I had the motor in the flash zooming in and out.

 

Did not have the problem last night when I used the flash.

 

I think the problem is related to the tight hot shoe of M9, but can not confirm. Last night I just gently tightened the flash lock ring in to try a different electrical contact pressure between flash and camera.

 

Not sure if this is related to your problem but worth checking.

 

Good luck.

 

John

[wparsonsgisnet]

I find I have to "open" up the ring that tightens the Metz all the way in order to get the flash on or off.

[jevidon]

Bill,

"...The 54 reads this from your camera and set the "aperture" accordingly...."

 

 

By that, do you mean it adjusts the light output? I assume that on flash setting (A) I still need to set the aperture on the camera and the flash LCD to match, correct?

 

On the flash setting (M) and GNC for "TTL" shooting, do I leave the aperture setting on the Metz at the default 45, or do I have to set the aperture to match what the camera is set at?

I realize that most shoot at the (A) setting, but TTL can come in handy, if it works. I am beginning to have my doubts.

 

Jim

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jim, yet you are right, it adjusts the light output.

 

Where are you setting you shutter speed dial?

 

Is it at A? If so, set it to 1/180 and see if the Metz gives you a more useful f-stop to work with.

[jevidon]

Bill,

Metz is my next stop. I do use the "flash shutter setting" when I am on (A). The flash works great on that setting. It's the GNC setting that is driving me to distraction. Regardless what I set the f stop to on the Metz to match the camera, it returns to f45 and then I get grossly over exposed pictures if I use it at the default f45. So to use it at GNC, I have to manually reset the flash f stop setting before each shot. That is awkward and unnecessarily time consuming. I'm sure Metz didn't intend it that way.

Jim

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[wparsonsgisnet]

Jim, when you say your are using A, I take it you mean the setting on the Metz.

 

Do you have your shutter speed set on the M? If you are setting that to A, that could be causing the small f-stops. Set the shutter speed dial to the max speed, like 1/180 or 1/250. See if that fixes the f45 problem.

 

I set the M8/9 to iso 160, and my shutter speed to 1/180 or 1/250 -- unless I want some ambient light in wedding shots for example. I would use 1/60 for that, as an example.

 

I set the Metz to Auto and it usually gives me stops in the f2.8 to f5.6 range.

 

As I use a diffusing snout on the flash and bounce it off the ceiling, I have to do some testing to find the correct f-stop.

 

See if any of this helps.

 

BTW, I bought one of the Fong light spheres to play with, but it seems to generate a lot more shadow than I like. I'm still working with it.

[jevidon]

Bill,

You have been very helpful. I got an e-mail response from Metz in about 12 hours. Very respectable. Here are my questions

subject: Metz 54MZ-4 Flash on a Leica M8

text: I am using a 54MZ-4 with a SCA 3502 adapter.

The flash works very well on the A setting provided I match the f stop on the flash with the one on the camera.

My problem is getting it to work TTL. I set the MZ-4 it on M and GNC as I have been advised. The f stop defaults to f45. At that setting, I get gross over exposures. If I set the MZ-4 at a larger f stop like f4 to f2, it works, but weakly with dim lighting results providing I match the camera f stop as well. What is wrong?

Is there a way to set the camera and flash so that I can take advantage of the TTL ( or GNC) feature?

Additionally, is the zoom feature on the MZ-4 supposed to be automatic and powered? If so, how to I set it to do so?

James Evidon

 

Here is the response from Herr Roland:

Many thanks for your e-mail inquiry of 20. Jan. 2010.

 

The mentioned digital-camera Leica M8 only is equipped with a special GNC-flash-control and not with the standard-TTL-flash-control anymore. Therefore the flash unit also has to be equipped with this GNC-flash-control.

 

However, the mecablitz 54 MZ-4 also is loaded with this special GNC-flash-control. But please note for the connection with the Leica M8 the adapter SCA 3502 onwards M4 is necessary. In this case the GNC-mode can be set at the mode "M" of the flash unit. Normally the light output of flash unit is controlled by the camera in this case.

 

Unfortunately the camera doesn't transfer the aperture to the flash unit. But at the GNC-flash-mode the setting of the aperture at the flash unit isn't important. If the aperture at the flash unit is different to the camera aperture normally the exposure also is correct. .....Basically the power zoom reflector of the flash unit also is controlled by the camera. But for this the lens has to be equipped with the coding and the function has to be set at the camera menu.

 

We hope we could be in assistance to you and remain

with best regards

 

Roland Laemmermann

Technical support

 

 

So as a result of your comments and Herr Roland's, I set the flash to(M) & GNC and the M8 shutter speed on (A). I works well with the camera f stops between 5.6 and 2.8 and the camera controls the flash. BTW, all my lenses are coded (one by John Milich and the rest, courtesy of that very clever Tim Isaacs and his magic decoder).

 

The flash really works better giving better light distribution set on (A), but at least I have the option of using it TTL now that I know how to do it. As has been commented before, the Metz owner's manual sucks, but Metz Customer Service was very helpful as were you.

Thanks,

Jim:):)