Leica Produces 4,000 M9!

[LondonM]

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People around here pretty much use film as the gold standard.

 

By that metric, I'd only expect to see one more iteration of the M series. Should be smaller...just like the film M's. The pinnacle of the M series might have faster electronics (emulating the speed of the manual M's) and a somewhat higher pixel count (for the one time in your life you make a 10 sq. ft. print...just like film). Higher ISO performance is nice, but it already exceeds film because of the noise processing algorithms available. More powerful CPUs might improve the noise performance (and moire), but CCD and CMOS sensors noise performance is at a wall if you don't cool them to nitrogen temps.

 

Any further development would not be an M. It would be something else like an autofocus zooming X2 or X3. I'd buy an X style camera with Leica glass and zoom (a grown up Dlux4) in a heartbeat.

 

Honestly, I can't see that anyone would "outgrow" the M9. Its FF, just like film. That was the big step, because your lenses now act just like film. After all, an M3 or M6 still takes a damn good picture, even with vintage glass. Just like film.

 

Now I'm going to go for a walk with our dog on this clear crisp afternoon and take some pics.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

[pnoble]

So, you bought a Leica M9 to be part of a exclusive club?

 

I was being a bit 'tongue in cheek', but the 911 and the M series have always struck me as being almost perfectly analogous in terms of both form and function.

[tobey bilek]

Photokina may show a mock up 35mm for R lenses. Maybe even a prototype.

 

It will use old R glass and a new series of AF will begin.

 

This does not mean I will buy an EVF slr. BS concept just like paint that wears off in two months. I never heard anyboy say their car had patina, just beat up.

[rick_dykstra]

... not to mention the new Porsche Panamera...

 

Steve

 

We dropped into a Porsche shop and had a look at one those today. The kids thought the back seats were really comfortable.

 

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M9, 35 Lux ASPH

M9, 35 Lux ASPH

[batmobile]

Bill, Anyone who cuts other people's posts into single sentence chunks and replies to them with short emphatic statements (that tells the other person what actually said and meant) tends to stand out for all the wrong reasons. I won't play barrack room lawyers with you, because if you re-read the original posts I don't think you will find an awful lot wrong with them. I also suspect Leica will deliver on some of these things in time, as I have suggested they could. I'm not the only person to have raised this wish list and know of plenty of people who have raised every single point I made if not all of them.

 

Of course FF was impossible until it was possible, but that is a non-statement. The point is that right up until the M9 was evident, people were saying 'give up dreaming of FF... its not going to happen and even if it does, it wont be for a looooong time.' It was not such a long time, was it? I suspect the clever people in solms will be looking to crack various other issues going forwards and thats a good thing isn't it?

 

What is the bloatware that I seem to have asked for? I assume you are a Leica user who shoots under very simple circumstances in the UK (Frimley,UK I assume) and so probably have no need or interest in some of the things I would like in a M10; however, I also suspect that all of those changes - assuming they are viable - would also lead to a better camera for you or no change. Why the suggestion that it would be bloated? I shoot M6/MPs and so fully appreciate simplicity. I do actually need some of those things because of the shooting I do, so why am I being whipped for daring to ask for them, Bill? Why is that you think anyone asking for more than the M9 is now is somehow 'getting ahead of themselves' or 'failing to understand the difficulties'?

 

If you do want to attack me or paint me (get it) as the creosote man, please explain what is wrong with me wanting these things or daring to suggest that some should be possible in the not too distant future. Or even daring to suggest that if Leica wants to exploit the leap it has made with the M9, they could do worse than to continue to evolve the concept and not sit back on the limited and commercially fairly irrelevant ranks of fondlers and brand loyalists who attack any kind of dissent.

 

Do you own a M8/9?

 

 

 

I never said that...

 

 

 

...by omission, you are.

 

 

 

Yes you are, and THAT is what I take issue with. You said:

 

 

 

See?

 

 

 

Yes. Not everyone wants the bloatware you do.

 

 

 

FF WAS impossible. Then technology improved.

 

 

 

I have never known them not to listen...

 

I have no issue with evolution, what I am getting so fed up with is the "Mr Creosote" approach to change - "Just one more wafer thin thumb-grip..."

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[delander †]

I certainly dont want a molded hand grip on a future M body. Look at modern DSLR design they are becoming one-handed cameras, with completely unbalanced handling. I would not say 'no' to improved resistance to moisture, even if the lenses stay as they are.

 

In so many ways the Leica M is different from other cameras. That is what brings new users to the camera and a proportion of them stay wedded to the concept.

 

For the future I think more DR is important.

 

Jeff

[bill]

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Bill... yada...

 

Ah, I see I have touched a nerve. Bless. No point in engaging with most of your rant; it is self-defeating. However I do take issue with two of your "points"

 

I assume you are a Leica user who shoots under very simple circumstances in the UK (Frimley,UK I assume)

 

Absolutely. Never leave the village. Never stray more than a few feet from my front door, in fact. I only shoot between 65 and 75 degrees on a dry day, and shoot cute pussycats and doggies...

 

Do you own a M8/9?

 

The ultimate elitist Orwellian defensive gearhead "argument". This used to come up on the M8 Forum too... I thought we had outgrown that nonsense.

 

Such a shame. If you actually read what I wrote you could have saved yourself a lot of time and blood pressure.

 

Off to the ignore list you go.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[batmobile]

Bill,

 

What a pompous fellow you are! I note that instead of actually arguing any of the original points you now disappear off into sarcasm and insults; however, looking at your photographs I can only conclude that your pattern of usage is indeed fairly undemanding. I can't say I am surprised that you have dropped your final insults and now run off to put me on the ignore list.

 

I have read quite a few of your posts and note that you make a habit of assuming the role of santimonious schoolmaster that absolutely will not tolerate any challenge to your 'authority'. The endless literrary quotes and intellectual posturing give you away. You see, I am very happy to discuss things on the same level of others without assuming the obnoxious persona that you have. Evidently you find comfort in these displays of self-assuredness.

 

I have no idea how you came up with your response to the M8/9 question. It was quite simple really. I tell you what, I'll go first: I own neither, however, I will be looking to buy a digital M when I find the product that is right for me. Sadly, thats not the M9. I wish it were otherwise, but I must wait a while more, which is frustrating on a number of levels. Now that was easy, wasn't it?

 

I read everything you said, unfortunately you have become obsessed with my not having accepted your public chastisement for my 'unrealistic flights of fancy'. This has become about your ego and nothing else. Enjoy life in your safe leafy Frimley bubble; however I am sure that Leica considers the market a little more broadly.

[rosuna]

I totally agree with you. I would add:

1. The 10,000 annual number is for the mature M products. The M8 in its first year was apparently just under 20,000 units and then dropped down to 10,000 and eventually 8,000 in its final year.
   
2. Leica need its seems to me to ship 20,000+ of the M9 in the first 12 months to make sufficient profit going forward. Dr Kaufmann had some very aggressive profit and revenue goals for the company that he wanted to meet over a 4 year period and 10,000 annually would not appear to meet these.
   
3. I see the M9 as a stop gap as has been said by others. I believe the real camera materialises when they fit the S2 electronics inside and my guess is an announcement in 10/10/10 as the devt time is about right in my view. This seems to be in line with your thoughts also.
   

 

The M8/M9 cameras are a mix of Leica's opto-mechanical engineering and Jenoptik's electronic and software engineering. Leica has to design and control the complete camera. On the other hand, the shutter noise, rangenfinder, etc. are very good, in the tradition of film M cameras, but several improvements have to be done. The thickness of the body and the speed of operation and simplicity of the interface (too many fragile buttons at the back). The image quality already is very good, compared to film.

[SteveYork]

The problem is the production of M6s may last for ten years... with minor changes or improvements, but the M9 will be in production, how long? Two years? I doubt it, two years is too much time. Leica has to invest much money in a new M camera with the S2 electronics and software. The M9 provides resources and time. It is good, but not a long term consolidated trend.

 

This high volume production will decrease in a year or so.

 

I think we will all be surprised. The M9 has everything most people want.

[batmobile]

I think we will all be surprised. The M9 has everything most people want.

 

It has, but could the counter-argument not be made using the computer parallel. Most people just want to email and type documents (for home use) but the market still sweeps us along with more complex operating systems, more powerful hardware and more capability and all for the same money as a less powerful computer a little while back.

 

Instead of keeping the same price and capability over years and years, surely they will be kinda forced to either lower the price (five years from now people will not think $7k is fair), which seems unlikely and most un-Leica-like or keep tweaking it to ensure it looks broadly in keeping with current technology? Pumping out the M9s will help allow for them to keep investing and tweaking, but as stated above, perhaps the M9/M9.2 will have quite a long lifespan before anything more substantial takes place (like changing the body design).

 

Looks like Leica has learned a lot from the M8 - M9 evolution and hopefully it will mean continued evolution and perhaps even revolution. The S2 shows they are not afraid of that.

These are exciting times; I just hope that the new lens releases are not prohibitively expensive.

[pnoble]

Seems to me that an M10 could usefully add one really useful feature beyond a presumably further refined sensor (at least in terms of sensitivity) and S2 ASIC integration:

 

• An electronic focusing aid.
  

An LED confirmation at the point of focus would not detract from the essence of the M nor require any change in lenses and with many users not in their visual prime, not to mention the inherently greater difficulty of focusing under low light conditions, I have to believe it would be well received, assuming it is technically feasible.

[tdtaylor]

Bill,

 

What a pompous fellow you are! I note that instead of actually arguing any of the original points you now disappear off into sarcasm and insults; however, looking at your photographs I can only conclude that your pattern of usage is indeed fairly undemanding. I can't say I am surprised that you have dropped your final insults and now run off to put me on the ignore list.

 

I have read quite a few of your posts and note that you make a habit of assuming the role of santimonious schoolmaster that absolutely will not tolerate any challenge to your 'authority'. The endless literrary quotes and intellectual posturing give you away. You see, I am very happy to discuss things on the same level of others without assuming the obnoxious persona that you have. Evidently you find comfort in these displays of self-assuredness.

 

I have no idea how you came up with your response to the M8/9 question. It was quite simple really. I tell you what, I'll go first: I own neither, however, I will be looking to buy a digital M when I find the product that is right for me. Sadly, thats not the M9. I wish it were otherwise, but I must wait a while more, which is frustrating on a number of levels. Now that was easy, wasn't it?

 

I read everything you said, unfortunately you have become obsessed with my not having accepted your public chastisement for my 'unrealistic flights of fancy'. This has become about your ego and nothing else. Enjoy life in your safe leafy Frimley bubble; however I am sure that Leica considers the market a little more broadly.

 

Thank you for your response. My thoughts exactly. Better to have a discussion than a lecture on a forum. Don't remember paying any tuition.

[Jeff S]

Do you own a M8/9?

 

Click on user name and see "about me" profile...

 

About bill

City

Frimley

Occupation

Gentleman Slave Trader

Sex

male

Country

UK

Leica Products

M7, M2, IID, D-Lux 4

Signature

Bill Palmer (Gentleman Amateur and Leica Lout)

 

 

Also easy to search prior posts under same profile section...like this one...

 

 

 

To each their own. If the M8 works for you, great, but I wouldn't use it as a doorstop. One of my three key gripes was the handling. The M9 isn't perfect, but it is, in my humble opinion, a considerable improvement over the "slick brick".

 

Regards,

 

Bill

__________________

Bill Palmer (Gentleman Amateur and Leica Lout)

 

Jeff

[bill]

Gosh, I'm flattered... So many fans, so much time on your hands! What a strange and obsessive life some people lead. Bless! ;-)