M9 problems (Part II)

[noah_addis]

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Noah

 

I'm off to Brazil, mainly Rio Grande do Norte, for two months soon. I've travelled around the country quite a bit, but have always been put off taking my Leica because of the high risk of robbery/violence. (I used to use an OM-4, and more recently a 5D, which I felt I could afford to lose). Have you found this to be a problem? I saw in another thread that you negotiated with favela leaders before shooting, but this isn't likely to be an option for me (I won't be going to any!). Thanks

 

Peter Lea

 

Sounds like a fun trip--I'd like to see somewhere other than Sampa and Rio next time I go.

 

Look, your 5D will attract much more attention than a little antique-looking Leica. I've never had problems in Brazil, but I also travel in a very low-key way, don't dress in fancy clothes or go with tour groups, take mass transit instead of private drivers, and I tend to stay and photograph in non-affluent areas. From my experience in Brazil and other places you're more likely to be targeted in rich areas where criminals go looking for a big score.

 

Of course, I wouldn't step out of my front door with any camera without proper insurance.

 

Having said all that, I do worry about traveling with two M9s, $14k worth of cameras, before you even include the value of lenses. It's one of the reasons I've been considering going back to film for my personal projects. So maybe you could pick up a used M6 and use that for your travels...

[Jamie Roberts]

I found really amazing how many incompetent memory card manufactures are on this Planet and how bad this is for Leica business...

 

Poor Leica, depending on incompetent memory card manufactures! I wonder how Nikon, Canon and other brands manage to survive in this hard World when they don't even have a 10th of the quality of Leica products! Really amazing.

 

(This was my today's sarcastic minute)

 

Well in this case your sarcasm is really quite misplaced, I think.

 

Let me google that for you

 

Only 22 million hits.

 

And while I've never had this happen on a Leica, it *has* happened frequently on both Canon and Nikon pro bodies that create relatively large RAW files with fast (expensive) Sandisk readers. I went through 3 of their high-end readers by way of confirming it was the actual reader messing up.

 

So really, you ought to read the posts or do a search before you add nothing by way of sarcasm: it's very likely that Noah has corrupted images due a card copy problem and not a camera writing problem.

 

In fact, both card and camera might be ok. Given the fact that this happens once in many thousands of shots, and the scrambling seems to be a portion of the file itself, it's probably not the camera or the card but the reader to computer interface.

 

But write problems are write problems wherever they occur. Unfortunately, in this instance, we'll never know the root cause because the files are no longer on the cards.

 

@ Noah--interesting you use Sandisk readers. I say ditch them and get something else.

 

I settled on Lexar bus-mastering readers (CF and SD) and they're awesome: fast and reliable, even moving large DNGs (17-20MB for the D3 14bpp and 19MB for the DMR).

 

The other way to make sure things are copied correctly, though, is to slow them down (I don't like this option, but it's true it's less error-prone).

 

OTH, let's say this too: the cards Noah is using (Extreme 3s, which I also use in the M8 and DMR) are not currently recommended by Leica for the M9 (but I'm sure that's for performance reasons).

 

Obviously Leica also has some tweaking to do, which I'm sure they're doing as we, um, write

 

But to imply memory card failures / copy problems / file scrambling is a unique Leica problem--even by way of sarcasm--is just plain dumb.

[adan]

As to SD card readers - the newest iMacs have one built-in, just below the slot for DVD/CDs. Wonderful (and no problems yet visible).

 

sdh - the problem is two rectangles lower left and right where a different part of the picture is written in instead of the original scene. In fact I would guess they come from other pictures (which would explain the apparent zooming), not just parts of the main shot replicated.

 

I guess I just don't have the faith many do (Moore's Law nothwithstanding) that one can cram 16,000 bits of data into the same space that held just 64 or 128 bits 5 years ago without the occasional glitch. I have a 4 gig card, and when it has gone a year without issues I will look at upgrading my 3-year-old 2 gig cards (which, knock wood, have performed flawlessly) - and maybe trying one 8-gig card.

[noah_addis]

...

I settled on Lexar bus-mastering readers (CF and SD) and they're awesome: fast and reliable, even moving large DNGs (17-20MB for the D3 14bpp and 19MB for the DMR). ...

 

Can you be more specific with a model number? I'm not familiar with these readers.

 

Also, I was under the impression that the Extreme III Cards are rated by Leica to offer slower performance with the M9, but I didn't think they're 'not recommended'.

[Nicoleica]

Noah, I use the Lexar RW035-7000 readers, and I find these to be very fast, and I've never had any problems with them using a variety of SD/SDHC and CF/UDMA cards. They are not the cheapest, but they are the best that I have found to date.

[adan]

OK - just for the record: Got a similar "hit" on one shot I just downloaded via the iMac internal SD reader from a SanDisk Extreme III 2 gig card (China). See below. Only one I've seen in 4300 M9 shots so far.

 

The shot was among the first 10 or so written to the card - i.e. it was not running low on space. It was the first shot I'd taken after a 2-minute hiatus, and I took another shot 2 seconds later.

 

Checked the original file still on the card - same artifact. Oddly, however, it does not show in the thumbnail, only in the full DNG image. (Maybe shooting DNG + JPG would have provided a backup without artifact?)

 

I'll hold off formating the card and try a separate USB reader if I get a chance, just to see if it makes any difference.

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[mtomalty]

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"Only 22 million hits"

 

...Geez, that's almost one hit per each Canon camera owner :>))

 

I've had almost exactly the same issue as Noah on a dozen or so 1Ds -> 1Ds3 files

over the last few years. Again, Sandisk Extreme cards

 

As well, I had had the problem occur ,rarely, when archiving Raw files from

one external drive to a second

 

Mark

Mark Tomalty Photography Montreal Canada Travel Landscape Stock FineArt

[Artichoke]

of course there are many, many more Canon cameras in use

Jamie knows how to make a point

did you just paste the search URL into the message?

very cool way to make a point

[wattsy]

OK - just for the record: Got a similar "hit" on one shot

 

I've also now got a snap showing this artifact. Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card. I'm not sure how relevant the card reader is to this problem - I can see the artifact viewing the shot on the back of the camera (albeit only after zooming in - i.e. when viewing the DNG rather than the preview thumbnail). Hopefully another won't show up soon but this is potentially a real problem if it ruins a shot of real importance.

[wattsy]

Maybe shooting DNG + JPG would have provided a backup without artifact?

 

That's an interesting question and is something I'll consider when I next use the camera for commercial work. The obvious downside to DNG+JPEG is the extra write time before you can check focus on an image.

[Jamie Roberts]

Ian--interesting. If you're seeing it on the camera then I assume it's actually the way the camera wrote it to the card.

 

@Andy--you'll have to let us know if a different reader made a difference...

 

@Noah--you're probably right; I can't find the post where I (thought) I saw that the Extreme 3s weren't in the "recommended from Leica" category. For sure they're currently slower than they should be...

 

As for the Lexar model numbers on the card readers I'm not near my main machine right now but it's these models (I think these dual SD/CF UDMA readers are the updated ones from what Nicole was mentioning):

 

Lexar - Flash memory card readers - Pro CF Reader

 

Hope that helps.

 

Anyway, I don't like the fact that multiple people are seeing this happen, though... all the cards have been Extreme 3s though... for whatever that's worth.

 

Off-topic a bit--what I wish Leica would do is have the processing stuff to include a full-res JPEG every time you shoot a DNG; kind of the way Nikon does in a NEF file.

 

way, if something really weird does happen to the RAW file, you have a kind of built-in backup. It may not be good quality as a properly written out in-camera JPEG, but it's something when you need it... It should also help with chimping.

[markrune]

Not had a problem with M8 but had some issues on my Nikon D300 again Sandisk Extreme III cards, all come up with CHR error, put in Lexar Pro card and all ok (even Sandisk for a while). Then problem reoccured - spoke to Nikon (as camera was just out of warranty) and they said they would look at camera free of charge but they were aware of problems with 30Mb/s Extreme III cardsand did not include on approved list. My card were not marked up sa such but after reforming on PC and then in Camera issue has not returned.

 

I alway bought SanDisk as they are a good make, but glad I had the Lexar otherwise would have thought Camera was faulty.

[jonoslack]

HI There

I've not seen this problem in around 10,000 shots. However, I'm just using 16Gb Ultra II cards (got a good deal on 4 of them).

 

Maybe it is the card?

[geesbert]

got this problem once yet, two consecutive imeages. sandisk 4GB Ducati extreme, the one with the build in USB. I have about 4000 shots on my M9

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[thrice]

got this problem once yet, two consecutive imeages. sandisk 4GB Ducati extreme, the one with the build in USB. I have about 4000 shots on my M9

 

Looks like your rangefinder patch got in the way

[Peter Lea]

I've had a similar problem very occasionally with 5D. Fortunately i was shooting raw + jpegs and the problem only affected one of them. So I guess it's an occasional card glitch. The cards were new Sandisk 4gb Extreme. Peter Lea

[noah_addis]

Has anyone heard from Leica that there are recommended and non-recommended cards?

 

The only literature I saw was the intial FAQ about the M9, which rated cards in terms of ++, + or - in terms of write speed, but did not explicitly say that any cards were not recommended.

 

I guess I'll pick up some ultra II cards, at least they're cheap!

[Jamie Roberts]

Has anyone heard from Leica that there are recommended and non-recommended cards?

 

The only literature I saw was the intial FAQ about the M9, which rated cards in terms of ++, + or - in terms of write speed, but did not explicitly say that any cards were not recommended.

 

I guess I'll pick up some ultra II cards, at least they're cheap!

 

Noah--

 

The FAQ is the doc. I was thinking about. I interpreted - for the Extreme 3s as "not good at all" since the card is actually faster than the Ultra 2s. To me this means something in firmware is wrong with the way the camera writes to fast cards.

 

I think it's a good idea to use the Ultra 2s until Leica gets the bugs out of their write-to-card algorithm.

[adan]

Finally - I got a chance to "read" the image I posted above (straw hat, red and yellow jitney) via a card reader other than my Apple built-in.

 

Artifact still shows up.

 

Card reader was Digital Concepts 9-in-1 USB model CR-70N - although I think we've figured out it is an Extreme III-M9 incompatibility, not the reader used.

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