Epson 3800, Lightroom, Snow Leopard and dark prints

[adli]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have some problems printing with my Epson 3800 from Lightroom running on Snow Leopard.

 

If I make Lightroom manage the colors, the prints turns out much darker than if I let the printer driver manage the colors. This is a bit annoying as I prefer to let my software manage the colors.

 

I have tried to delete and reinstall both Lightroom and the printer drivers and have been spending a lot of paper, ink and time on test prints with no luck.

 

Anyone have a clue?

[Jeff S]

There was a problem with CS...Solving Recent Profiling Issues With Apple Computers Epson Printers and Photoshop

 

Perhaps this is more to the point...http://www.computer-darkroom.com/lr_13_print/lightroom_print.htm

 

If not, there is a ton of information available (search, Google) on why prints are often darker on a screen than off the printer...here's but one thread...http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-post-processing-forum/107285-printing-versus-screen-colour-match-density.html

 

Jeff

[adli]

There was a problem with CS...Solving Recent Profiling Issues With Apple Computers Epson Printers and Photoshop

 

Perhaps this is more to the point...Adobe Lightroom - Print Tutorial

 

If not, there is a ton of information available (search, Google) on why prints are often darker on a screen than off the printer...here's but one thread...http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-post-processing-forum/107285-printing-versus-screen-colour-match-density.html

 

Jeff

 

The "problem with CS" is actually not a problem with CSD but with how Snow Leopard manages color profiles. This seems to be the problem in my case also, except that I use Lightroom and not CS.

 

I have searched dozens of web pages, but no solution for Lightroom if I want Lightroom to manage colors (If I let the printer manage, the prints are not dark).

[jpattison]

I think your mac is using the same profile, twice.

 

In the epson print screen select a generic profile, ie: Fine Art Matt / Gloss or Watercolour etc.

Use the correct profile in Lightroom.

This worked for a friend of mine.

 

John

[Jamie Roberts]

The "problem with CS" is actually not a problem with CSD but with how Snow Leopard manages color profiles. This seems to be the problem in my case also, except that I use Lightroom and not CS.

 

I have searched dozens of web pages, but no solution for Lightroom if I want Lightroom to manage colors (If I let the printer manage, the prints are not dark).

 

 

Well, dumb question time, since I'm on Windows, but how is your screen calibrated? What luminance targets and what gamma?

 

FWIW, I'd be surprised (I don't know) if LR uses a different print engine than PS.

[adli]

Well, dumb question time, since I'm on Windows, but how is your screen calibrated? What luminance targets and what gamma?

 

FWIW, I'd be surprised (I don't know) if LR uses a different print engine than PS.

 

My screen (Eizo CG241W) is calibrated with a Spyder3Elite, 6500K, gamma 2.2.

 

When Lightroom came out it had different print engine than the one in PS. I don't know if they have merged later. However the print settings in Lightroom are not the same as for PS, so the PS solution provided in the link Solving Recent Profiling Issues With Apple Computers Epson Printers and Photoshop are not applicable in Lightroom.

 

As John points out, I am pretty sure it is a problem with my mac using double profiles since the problem only occurs when I let the application (Lightroom) manage colors. I will try his tip on selecting a generic profile and post the result.

[Jamie Roberts]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

My screen (Eizo CG241W) is calibrated with a Spyder3Elite, 6500K, gamma 2.2.

{snipped}

 

As John points out, I am pretty sure it is a problem with my mac using double profiles since the problem only occurs when I let the application (Lightroom) manage colors. I will try his tip on selecting a generic profile and post the result.

 

Hmm. But if you were actually double-profiling, then you'd also see colour shifts (usually into magenta) as well, right? Not just a luminance change.

 

So to me it seems you either have a bug in the LR software ( or in the colour settings on the Mac?), or one of your settings is still off.

 

So three more dumb questions--I suspect they won't apply, but what the heck :

 

• when you print from LR to the Epson driver, and you let LR manage colour, are you positive you've turned off colour management in the Epson driver?
  
• what luminance target is your EIZO calibrated for? Mine is generally between 100 and 110 cd/m2. Is it possible your luminance it could be set too high to match a print with the LR engine and the 3800 profiles?
  
• what output transform is LR using profile to profile? Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric? I've found that RC can produce a different midtones, which can make for a seemingly darker print than perceptual in some cases (OTH, I usually like the transformation with RC on the Adobe engine, at least).
  

Probably not the problem here--I said they were dumb--but worth a try anyway...

[adli]

I think your mac is using the same profile, twice.

 

In the epson print screen select a generic profile, ie: Fine Art Matt / Gloss or Watercolour etc.

Use the correct profile in Lightroom.

This worked for a friend of mine.

 

John

 

I tried this. Result was real weird colors...

[adli]

Hmm. But if you were actually double-profiling, then you'd also see colour shifts (usually into magenta) as well, right? Not just a luminance change.

 

So to me it seems you either have a bug in the LR software ( or in the colour settings on the Mac?), or one of your settings is still off.

 

So three more dumb questions--I suspect they won't apply, but what the heck :

 

• when you print from LR to the Epson driver, and you let LR manage colour, are you positive you've turned off colour management in the Epson driver?
  
• what luminance target is your EIZO calibrated for? Mine is generally between 100 and 110 cd/m2. Is it possible your luminance it could be set too high to match a print with the LR engine and the 3800 profiles?
  
• what output transform is LR using profile to profile? Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric? I've found that RC can produce a different midtones, which can make for a seemingly darker print than perceptual in some cases (OTH, I usually like the transformation with RC on the Adobe engine, at least).
  

Probably not the problem here--I said they were dumb--but worth a try anyway...

 

Color management turned of in driver

luminance 100 cd/m2

Preceptual

 

There is a slight color cast, but it is very small compared to the difference in luminance

[Jamie Roberts]

Color management turned of in driver

luminance 100 cd/m2

Preceptual

 

There is a slight color cast, but it is very small compared to the difference in luminance

 

Well, that's all in order. Do you have Photoshop installed? If not, I think I'd download the trial version just to confirm the print engine does the same thing.

 

I guess this might be related to the bug described on LL, where you can't actually pass an unprofiled document through the print driver. In this case, it sounds like even if you turn CM off in the Epson driver it's applying something anyway.

 

But the odd thing is the luminance issue. Usually, when you double-profile there aren't slight shifts in colour but major ones. overall luminance isn't usually affected that much though. Still, I guess that might be due to the actual contents of the file.

 

As a last resort you could call or write to Adobe or Epson. They might be aware of an issue that we don't know about...

 

I'm afraid I don't know any more about Mac colour management to be useful. Sorry!

[chrism]

There was a problem with CS...Solving Recent Profiling Issues With Apple Computers Epson Printers and Photoshop

 

Jeff

 

Isn't that problem only occurring when you want to have no colour management by Photoshop, and no colour management in the printer as well (eg for test targets), and the OS won't let printing go through ColorSync with no colour management at all, so adds an sRGB profile just for fun? That was my understanding of it from the article on LL and the long thread in the forum there about it.

Having said that, I sometimes get very dark prints from a 2400 (and yes, my screen is calibrated).

 

Chris

[adan]

Just to check - you do have the newest Epson profiles and software (from Epson's site) for use with SL? The software on the CD that shipped with the 3800 printers is definitely NOT to be used with SL - in fact, Epson doesn't even want you to put the CD into a computer running SL!

 

Epson America, Inc. - Support: Mac OS X Snow Leopard Support

 

That being said, I never try to print unless I have bright daylight in the room (or an equivalent bright, full-spectrum artificial light). With bright daylight to illuminate the prints and make the monitor seem dimmer, I get a pretty good visual brightness match between my iMac and my 3800 prints - but in dim nighttime household light the prints will always look really muddy and dark compared to the screen.

 

I run a 250 or 500-watt photoflood bounced off the ceiling if I absolutely have to make and judge prints outside daylight hours.

[johnvarenda]

hi...

I too using the Epson3800 in that i experience a problem in the flash and the menu.

can anyone help me.....

Thanks...

...................

[yadillah]

I also had the same problem with Snow Leopard.

I uninstalled Snow Leopard and problem solved!

 

Then I reinstalled after I had done some research on various forums.

When installing Snow Leopard there is a section on the disc of "extras". Included is a program called "Rosetta". Instal this and then reinstall the Epson 3800 drivers after downloading them from the Epson website.

 

I did all this and now everything is fine!!