Help - M8/M lens use "simulation" with Digilux 2?

[wstotler]

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Hello!

 

Perhaps somebody can help me. (I have a thread running at photo.net in the Leica forums there and the answers I'm getting back aren't answering my question.)

 

Some background:

 

(1) I own a Digilux 2.

 

(2) I'm investigating purchasing the M8 early next year--or when they have its reported issues worked out.

 

(3) In advance--I know a Digilux 2 is not an M8 so comparisons will be rough.

 

(4) Lenses like the 35 mm f/2 Summicron ASPH are (of course) quite different than the DC Vario-Summicron 1:2.0-2.4/7-22.5 ASPH.

 

(5) I want to "approximate" the *experience* of shooting with lenses like the 35 mm f/2 Summicron. Or, other Leica lenses I find that interest me.

 

(6) I completely understand that depth of field, clarity, and even the ability to handle light cannot be simulated with the Digilux 2. But maybe the "framing" and "light" issues can be.

 

Help!

 

(A) How do I set up my Digilux 2 to approximate the field of view of using, for example, a 35 mm f/2 Summicron on an M8?

 

(A1) What would I "dial in" on the Digilux 2's zoom ring to get a similar field of view? 46.55 mm? (Using a 1.33 factor.) Or, is there some other factor I need to figure out?

 

(A2) More important: is there a "formula" for figuring this out. (I can't figure it out because I can't synthesize the information I've read about the cameras and lenses. Not enough experience and no formal training.)

 

 

( How do I set my aperture settings on the Digilux 2 to get similar light characteristics?

 

(B1) Does an f/2 on the Digilux 2 produce the same image "brightness" as an f/2 with an M8/M lens combo? Or, is there some way to compute the difference?

 

(B2) Or, is this question not relevant because an f/2 setting always produces about the same amount of "brightness" in an image, no matter which camera/lens combo you use. (E.g., the f value is a constant regardless of platform--like dpi or mph. f/2 will always be f/2 BUT you'll get better depth of field, contrast, less distortion, etc, with a better lens.)

 

If somebody can help me answer A and B with a reproducable method, I can look at any Leica M lens and know I can "fake" its field of view and brightness so I can get a sense of the width/height/brightness of the images I'd take.

 

And, I could also learn how to properly use the "foot zoom" to frame up my subjects like I'd have to with a fixed lens on the M8. E.g., I can "fake" the physical particulars. "Well, if I had the 35 mm Summicron f/2 on here I'd have to be this close and then focus like this and my aperture would have to be set like this."

 

I guess what I'm looking for is an answer that explains itself about like this:

 

(1) Will--look at the specification on the M lens on the Web. If it says 35 mm, multiply by X and then divide by Y to get a number you can set your Digilux's zoom to. What you'll see through the lens of the Digilux is about the same angle of view as what you'd see through the M8's rangefinder. (BTW, if you get more than 90mm or less than 28mm in your calculations you can't simulate what you'd see through the M8 with that M lens.)

 

(2) Will--because the M8 has a better sensor and because purpose-built Leica M lenses are always "brighter", subtract two EV steps on the Digilux 2. So, just remember that when shooting in a dim room you could bump up the EV by two steps to shoot at a higher aperture OR faster speed if you had the M8/M lens combo and get a brighter shot. (This is an ISO 100/ISO 160 comparison.)

 

Sorry for the length, but I haven't found a synthesized answer to my questions elsewhere and am unable to reliably synthesize an answer for myself.

 

Thanks!

Will

[chrism]

The Digilux 2 has its zoom ring marked in 35mm equivalent focal lengths, so just set it to the focal length that is the effective length on the M8, ie 35 x 1.33 = 46.5mm.

Now I don't have my Digilux 2 with me (I'm away from home) and I can't recall for sure if it offers f2.0 at 46mm - the maximum aperture might be a bit smaller at that focal length. Remember that even if it were so, you can't quite compare depth of field from camera to camera, because that 46mm isn't really the focal length you are using, it is just the 35mm equivalent.

 

Chris

[wstotler]

Chris,

 

Thanks for the quick response! So a 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit's angle of view on an M8 would be 37.24mm. Which means I'd estimate and dial in about 37mm on the Digilux. Conversely, a 21mm Elmarit on an M8 would have an angle of view of 28mm--so I'd dial in 28mm on the Digilux. And, I'd never be able to simulate the 75mm Summilux f/1.4 because the Digilux 2 can't be dialed up to 99.75mm! If this isn't correct, I'd appreciate a correction. Thanks again for the quick (and seemingly obvious) answer/confirmation.

[carstenw]

Chris is totally correct in that the depth of field cannot be compared. Note that although you are seeing a crop at the wide end of your lens which make the field of view approximately that of a full-frame 28mm (21mm on the M8), the depth of field is still that of a 7mm lens, ie. it is huge. You can never get the kind of narrow depth of field which you could get on an M8. In my mind, this point alone will ensure that I will never use a P&S, even one as nice as a Digilux-2, as anything more than a snapshot camera. Narrow depth of field is so beautiful. I would recommend bringing your girlfriend to a camera store, and taking a few pictures of her at close distance with a 50mm f/1.4 Asph, or even better, a Noctilux, to see what I mean.

[ho_co]

And don't forget the difference in aspect ratio between the cameras: The Digilux 2 is 4:3, the M8 3:2.

 

The "35mm equivalent" focal lengths engraved on the D2's zoom ring are based on the frame diagonal. So calculating the equivalent focal length by multiplying the M lens's focal length by 4/3 will give you approximately the same diagonal, but the horizontal angle will be less on the Digilux than on the M8.

 

In other words, there's no way to set an exactly comparable focal length on the D2 because the aspect ratios are not the same.

 

--HC

[adan]

Actually, my experience was that the Digilux 2 "equivalent lens angle" was based on the horizontal coverage (I did some comparisons). I.E. cropping a 3:2 format out of the D2's 4:3 format has the same coverage as shooting with the equivalent lens on film. Thus the true overall coverage was wider than I expected from the marked settings on the zoom - more like a "24-75". So I tended to set the lens about halfway between 35 and 50 if I wanted the "look" of a 35 on a film M (or a 28 on the M8).

 

A couple of tips on the original question:

 

1) as mentioned, the DOF will be huge with the Digilux 2, so shoot wide-open as much as you can, and get in as close as possible to blur the backgrounds as much as the camera can. See my thread "That ol' digital Tri-X" to see what f/2 does on a BIG sensor.

 

2) You might look around for a used 35mm or 28mm or 24mm accesory viewfinder to put in the hot shoe - non-Leica 35mm finders can sometime be found to $25-30. (The camera will think the finder is a flash - so you need to adjust the 'external flash" settings to allow long exposures with flash, otherwise the camera shutter will stick at the flash sync speed)

 

This will give you the feel of the M8's window viewfinder, as opposed to the video screen inside the Digilux. You can easily scale-focus the D2 at those wider fields of view (estimate subject distance and set it on the lens scale), which will reduce the shutter lag immensely. Also, the video finder has its own lag behind reality, so the accesory finder will make it easier to catch "moments".

 

This shot was made with the D2: lens set to 6 feet and no AF - somewhere between the marked 35 and 50mm settings.

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[MrEd]

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Shallow DOF? Here's 3 samples. I know the small sensor has limitations, you just have to work around them.

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[wstotler]

Thanks, everyone. Chrism, Carstenw, ho_co, edisaacs, and especially adan, thanks for your responses. Not only did you answer my original question but the ancillary information you've provided has helped quite a bit. Thanks again!

 

Thanks,

Will