Steve Ash Posted November 16, 2009 Share #21 Posted November 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Personally the interest is not weakening at all and I am not on any list yet. I will buy it sooner or later. Time will tell only whether it is called M9 then. But this is only because I have to depreciate my M8.2 which I still love. I am sure that there are a lot of film M owners around who are not aware yet that there is a FF digital M available which can lead their nice lenses into the digital age. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Hi Steve Ash, Take a look here Interest in M9 weakening?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ModernMan Posted November 16, 2009 Share #22 Posted November 16, 2009 In the consumer electronics business, often a product is announced for first delivery a few months in the future. This suppresses competitor's sales in the intermim period, and provides time to build inventory for initial demand. The business is very seasonal (November-December can equal the entire rest of the year in some product categories). The peak of the "profile raising" (buzz and hype) comes not at announcement, but at first customer availabilty. Sometimes inventoy is delivered to dealers under embargo until the day of "release" so that it is instantly availble to meet the initial demand spike (that would have been well received in 9/9/09, yes?). The announcement is just part of the "drumbeat" leading up to the bug event -- the day of release. Now, of course, the Leica M9 is not a typical consumer electronic product. The buying patterns for it may be similar, but the approach is a bit counter-culture for Leica. In the case of the M9, Leica had to deliver as soon as they announced since demand for new M8's would abruptly end when the M9 was announced. Leica probably would have been wiser to forget the 9/9/09 aeshetic and announce later (maybe around now -- November) with large and immediately available initial inventory. Waiting for ideal inventory (probably Feberuary) would put them into what is usually a slow time of year for discretionary spending. What they did instead, was consistent with their culture and approach (think about their lens announcements). And that's ok but just not optimal, largely because of the profound impact of the product and initial demand spike, which will decline more rapidly than most Leica products but not as quick as typical consumer electronic devices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDyl Posted November 16, 2009 Share #23 Posted November 16, 2009 Still happy with the M8.2 and after waiting so long I just decided the $7K would be better saved or spent on lenses and a GF1 system as backup (instead of M9 with M8.2 as backup). I'm sure I'll get one eventually but awfully happy with the current setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted November 16, 2009 Share #24 Posted November 16, 2009 ... truly improved version (new sensor) ... Well said. This (and the rather slow processor for an 18mp camera) is the very reason why I haven't ordered one yet. I believe Leica decided to go with a larger M8 sensor (3 years old) version instead of going with the new Maestro technology simply to avoid cannibalizing their S2 sales. Wouldn't be surprised if that option will be available at next years Photokina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjr Posted November 16, 2009 Share #25 Posted November 16, 2009 To meet the demand would be .... so common and so un-Leica, would it not ? ! I am waiting for mine since 19th September and I am not in a hurry...when it comes it comes ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&W Posted November 16, 2009 Share #26 Posted November 16, 2009 So if you were running Leica, how would you have satisfied the initial demand? Would you have employed and trained more technicians to assemble the cameras, or would you have delayed the launch until the existing workforce had built sufficient bodies to satisfy the demand following the launch? Or would you have adopted some other strategy? I would have done only one thing different; I would be open and communicated with the market and my loyal costumers. I am afraid Leica did lose some business due to their silence. I have one in order and must admit that I have lost the first enthusiastic need for M9 – until today when my dealer rang me and told me that they have a grey M9 with my name on it ……. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 16, 2009 Share #27 Posted November 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) So Marcus talked to one dealer and heard interest at that store was waning - whereas on the M9 delivery thread someone else picked up his camera from a dealer who has a waiting list of 26. Which just goes to show that in a global marketplace, any one person's experience is a spit in the ocean. One person plus everyone that person has ever met in their lifetime is a spit in the ocean. It's like one grain of sand making an assumption about the condition of the beach by talking to the grain next door. The only globally evident fact is that M9 demand is outstripping M9 supply - true on 9/9/09, still true today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted November 16, 2009 Share #28 Posted November 16, 2009 Unethical to be on multiple lists? Give me a break. Most of the dealers I called put me on their list even after I told them I was on multiple lists. They said, "It's ok just let me add you in case I get it before the others" Since delivery is so random, I call it smart to be on multiple lists. If anything, Leica M9 interest will get bigger once more people have them and others can see what it is all about. If you want an indication about interest, look at the Ebay auction for a used M9 at 10k. There seems to be huge animosity against the M9 by people with an M8. I cannot explain it. It is just a camera, which IMHO might be the best camera ever produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted November 16, 2009 Share #29 Posted November 16, 2009 Unethical to be on multiple lists? Give me a break. ... Ok, maybe unethical is too strong of a word, sorry if I offended you (or anyone else on multiple lists). Certainly if you're telling the dealers you're on other lists then I would admit it's a fair practice. I do feel like there is a benefit to being loyal to a dealer who has provided excellent service, however, and I will continue to do so. ...There seems to be huge animosity against the M9 by people with an M8. I cannot explain it. It is just a camera, which IMHO might be the best camera ever produced ... I can't understand it either. While I would love to auction mine for $10k and go back to shooting film (and use the extra cash to fund some worthwhile projects for me) I just can't bring myself to do it. The camera is really quite good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EarlBurrellPhoto Posted November 16, 2009 Share #30 Posted November 16, 2009 So if you were running Leica, how would you have satisfied the initial demand? Would you have employed and trained more technicians to assemble the cameras, or would you have delayed the launch until the existing workforce had built sufficient bodies to satisfy the demand following the launch? Or would you have adopted some other strategy? Perhaps a combination thereof. Whatever "cost" would've been increased by doing either or both, certainly would've been less profit-robbing than allowing potential buyers time to re-think their purchase decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalina Posted November 16, 2009 Share #31 Posted November 16, 2009 If I was someone with a lot of money and options (very soon), I'd go with the camera that's awesome and available. With the Nikon D3s right around the corner, I'd get that if it's the only camera that's going to be available. You would think that Leica would've done some planning to determine what their supply and demand was before announcing their product to everyone. Waiting two months for a new camera is not cool at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 17, 2009 Share #32 Posted November 17, 2009 You would think that Leica would've done some planning to determine what their supply and demand was before announcing their product to everyone. I'm pretty certain they did. Again, how would a small company like Leica have thousands of cameras available for the launch? I'm guessing they can make 10,000 cameras a year - that's a wild guess on my part, should they have delayed the release of the M9 for six months so that they could have 5,000 cameras available? What would having so many unsold cameras sat in their warehouse have done to their cash flow? Could they have survived by adopting that strategy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted November 17, 2009 Share #33 Posted November 17, 2009 Lloyd Chambers tested the M9 and is not enthusiastic about it (to say the least). You can check his blog here diglloyd.com blog: November 2009 but then the review is for subscribers only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted November 17, 2009 Share #34 Posted November 17, 2009 My interest is still there for the M9. More than ever actually, especially after hearing my local bricks and mortar dealer is bringing in a M9 for me to try out in the store:D. Im impressed. It's almost like they want my business. I'll give them a week than ...OO. Im not concerned with a the negative reviews from the like's of Diglloyd. Im mean really who care's. One opinion. . I must say the waiting for a M9 is becoming old. Im sure Lecia is going just as fast as they can but the idea of getting a M8 is becoming more and more appealing. Or adding a second film M to my everyday carry. The M6 is beginning to look like my next leica. Which will cost about $1200 Canadian. Ill just spend the other $6,200 on film and processing. Thats a lot of Tri-X and D-76. I have no doubt the longer lecia waits to fill the orders the less M9 they will sell. Im a classic case in point. Im patient so long as I don't have to wait to long. The self life for digital camera's is measured in months not decades like film cameras. Make me wait to long and like a jilted lover I will turn away. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted November 17, 2009 Share #35 Posted November 17, 2009 With the Nikon D3s right around the corner, I'd get that if it's the only camera that's going to be available. You would think that Leica would've done some planning to determine what their supply and demand was before announcing their product to everyone. Waiting two months for a new camera is not cool at all. But Nikon has had this problem too. Even some NPS members waited for the D3, us consumer types just waited. I had a paid in full deposit and I waited nearly 3 months. There were waits for the 18-200 f3.5-5.6 for over a year! That's for a consumer lens made in Thailand! I think a lot of the people who would not buy because they have to wait, likely would have sold in a few months anyways, which doesn't help Leica in the long run as people will gladly snatch up barely used models for a discount vs. buying new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddale Posted November 17, 2009 Share #36 Posted November 17, 2009 Please send all those unwanted cameras to Australia! Where we have seen a total of 17 M9's and have over 30 people with paid deposits in my town alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted November 17, 2009 Share #37 Posted November 17, 2009 It is almost easier to buy a Ferrari. Erm, I can personally attest to the fact that getting my M9 was a LOT easier than getting a new Ferrari. If you think 2-3 months wait is bad then you've obviously never tried to buy a new exotic. What Ferrari dealers do have the ability to do quite well is get you into a nice pre-owned model to enjoy for the 2+ years you're waiting for that new car (unless of course you want to pay the $$$ premium for a flipped car to get it earlier). Anyway, back to the Leica issue, it's true that the delay has been irritating. What would have made the whole process much more palatable (for me at least) would have been better communication. Given that Leica knew that they couldn't deliver on the promise of all orders within a few weeks of the announcement, they would have been much better served if they'd given some more information about the distribution model & the number of cameras coming into the countries/regions. If we'd found out through something other than the rumour mill what the production capacity was, why grey cameras were so slow in being distributed, and how dealers might be allocated cameras, then I think that less people would be so annoyed. I feel for the dealers too because they haven't been given good information in a timely manner either to pass on to their customers. I chose to order through my regular dealer and was only on his list. I think that loyalty and personal relationships pay back over the long term and otherwise pretty soon we'll only be left with the mega-stores like B&H or the cowboy internet merchants if you abandon your local dealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted November 17, 2009 Share #38 Posted November 17, 2009 Please send all those unwanted cameras to Australia! Where we have seen a total of 17 M9's and have over 30 people with paid deposits in my town alone. That's obviously a new definition of 'weakening demand' Good luck and I hope you see your cameras soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrice Posted November 17, 2009 Share #39 Posted November 17, 2009 I chose to order through my regular dealer and was only on his list. I think that loyalty and personal relationships pay back over the long term and otherwise pretty soon we'll only be left with the mega-stores like B&H or the cowboy internet merchants if you abandon your local dealer. I decided it would be a good idea to do the same. While waiting for my M9 I had to cancel a lens and billingham I had on order with the same dealer for monetary reasons (and since they had been on order for 2 months). I also decided to change the ordered camera colour from grey to black which I was initially told would be no problem. I got an abusive phone call and was encouraged to get my M9 refunded as well, altogether very childish and I eventually decided - after trying to order a $20 red dot and being told I had to pay up front and couldn't cancel that or any future orders, or get anything refunded without paying a cancellation fee - to get the M9 refunded from them as well. Sticking with your local dealer is an admirable and honorable endeavour, but not when your dealer can't behave professionally. This is a dealer I had spent about 4k with regardless of the M9, and I even gave them a free print (11 x 17") to show my appreciation of their time and effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted November 17, 2009 Share #40 Posted November 17, 2009 Daniel, Under those circumstances I could totally understand throwing your dealer under the bus. Perhaps I should have qualified my dealer loyalty statement to 'good' dealers Those that behave like yours deserve the equivalent of camera store Darwinism ... i.e. vote with your wallet elsewhere. Btw, I love the 'Rising Phoenix' shot in your gallery!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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