extreme weather - Leica MP

[atlfoto]

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Murphy never sleeps!! F...!!

Yesterday I developed one roll of tri-x with some shoots of the recent snow fall in Madrid's mountains and it seems like the M6 had failed. The temperature was about 0º C and it was quite windy last sunday morning and I think the camera was constraint by them and the light had got into it. I have got all the snow shoots completely black (unveiled) while the other shoots (in warmer temperatures) are perfect. What could I do? Some experience with similar problems?

Thanks

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[Guest aurora_borealis]

(...) I have got all the snow shoots completely black (unveiled) while the other shoots (in warmer temperatures) are perfect. (...)

 

That sounds strange. If you mean like underexposed then it's normal if you shoot in the snow, but if it's like all black... hmm... that's not good.

 

My M6 classic did not behave like that and it's really cold here.

[atlfoto]

That sounds strange. If you mean like underexposed then it's normal if you shoot in the snow, but if it's like all black... hmm... that's not good.

 

No, it's not underexposure due to the white snow... there are black stripes in the photo that seems to be light getting inside the camera... ¡¡too bad!!.

I am pretty sure that should be many solutions, for example, tape in the camera's back door or using a camera case that prevent the light entrance...., but I would like to hear if anybody has had the same problem and its solution....

Thank you all.

[marke]

 

The film rewind crank on the M6 is also better to use in this climate because you can rewind the film without taking your gloves off. (or at least do it quite fast with your bare hands) That is not possible with the MP unless you have the MP rewind crank. You just have to bite your tongue and do it while you think of something else

 

That doesn't make sense to me. The small crank handle is much more difficult to hang onto (and keep hanging onto!) than the larger rewind knob.

[rob_x2004]

Maybe winding is the problem. Maybe I start with a wind but definitely roll the knurled knob down the side of my finger. Seems pretty quick. Never had a problem in gloves. Only problem I have ever had without one bare fingertip is flicking out the twist lock to open the base plate. Need pointier tongue maybe.

[dpattinson]

That sounds strange. If you mean like underexposed then it's normal if you shoot in the snow, but if it's like all black... hmm... that's not good.

 

No, it's not underexposure due to the white snow... there are black stripes in the photo that seems to be light getting inside the camera... ¡¡too bad!!.

I am pretty sure that should be many solutions, for example, tape in the camera's back door or using a camera case that prevent the light entrance...., but I would like to hear if anybody has had the same problem and its solution....

Thank you all.

 

There was another post quite recently that mentioned the shutter sticking due to low temperature on some cameras. I thin it was the shutter lube getting a bit sticky? They also mentioned stripes that they thought might be light leaks. You will know if it's a light leak from the back because it will fog the outside of the film through the sprocket holes. If the stripes are only on the normally exposed part of the film - then it's the shutter.

 

[edit] this is the post I was referring to: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/105762-help-light-inside-m6-rear-door.html#post1116400 [/edit]

[lincoln_m]

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Aurora,

Thanks for relating your extreme low temp experiences with the MP vM8. It has reminded me why I went for the MP in the first place.

 

At the user day at Leica they said the new cameras have the special lub by default which should be good down to -20C. I certainly had no issues in Iceland for 1 week in March (-6C to 0C) and stayed on the same battery. My M7 did need to change batteries but they weren't new to start with.

 

I think I was able to rewind the film with gloves on at a Gullfoss, -2C with very stiff winds.

 

Golden Circle Web Page - ICE01_36

 

When I was in Nepal on an Everest Base camp trek 2003 for 3 weeks with -10C at night my M6TTL went through 5 batteries in that time. The M6TTL meter was not so good in the cold even at 5C and lower it's battery life was not so good. The MP has a much better battery life compared.

 

On the Iceland trip I also took a Canon G10 which also worked quite well. Everything was in and out of a Crumpler Camera bag and in and out of the car. Condensation was not an issue because of the bag.

 

My MP is living in a 5* hotel compared to your sleeping rough usage. It is great to know just how rough we can treat the MP and still have it working. Perhaps I won't need to treat it so gently?

 

The heat is probably more of an issue as it can have a bad effect on the film and cause magenta casts etc. On holiday in Greece the temp can easily get to 40C and the camera can almost be too hot to hold. I actually worry more about the heat than the cold now. Batteries are fine in the heat, but film is not and vice versa in the cold.

 

Cheers, Lincoln

[johnalex141r]

Dear photographers,

 

First, It turned out that my newly-bought M8 is worthless in this climate. All the batteries die after 5 min. of use on a normal sunny day, and so the camera sits in my bag for the rest of the day.

 

Yeah, I found that my M8 was not so good; the first time I took it out on a bright, sunny -20 day, it gave me 18 clicks before it did the whirr-of-death. It happened again a couple of evenings ago, and it was not even below freezing! (newly charged battery, but maybe it could do with replacement)

 

I tend to stick to film during the winters... maybe you only get 30 with 220 film in a Fujica GS645s, but at least it gives more than the M8 does...

 

The M8 is great in warm climates, but something seems to go badly wrong when it gets cold.

 

No, I would not get rid of my M8 for anything; but glad I still have some film gear around.

 

JohnS,

Ottawa.

[damaso]

Um, can we see some photos?

[peter_n]

What of? If it's lashing you can't see anything! This is on the top of the Sugarloaf with the Wicklow Mts. in the background.

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[Checkland]

Anyone have any experience of taking their mp to the desert? Thinking about taking mine and would like some tips.

[marcusperkins]

I used mine extensively across Afghanistan, norther Pakistan, and the worst dust bowls in Africa. I don't praise equipment easily, but the MP and M6 have worked flawlessly. They've kept working when all else has failed. For something that is not 'weather sealed' they are incredibly tough.

[giordano]

Anyone have any experience of taking their mp to the desert? Thinking about taking mine and would like some tips.

 

The main worries are heat and dust. Vibration and shock can be an issue if you're driving away from the bitumen.

• Keep it in the shade when possible. Don't leave dark-coloured equipment cases in the sun (some people paint theirs white).
  
• Protect film from the heat. E.g. keep all except film needed that day in the middle of a rolled-up sleeping bag.
  
• If dust storms are a possibility, it helps to be able to put your equipment cases into big strong plastic bags. Even if you have an airtight Pelikan or similar, you'll need a brush to get the sand out of the crevices before it's safe to open the case. And a brush to get the sand off the cameras and lenses.
  
• Use a UV or other protective filter. That way there's no risk of scratching a lens while cleaning it. If you're just carrying the camera, keep the lens cap on.
  
• If the camera and lenses have been exposed to a lot of dust, consider sending them to be cleaned after you get home.
  

[marcusperkins]

The main worries are heat and dust. Vibration and shock can be an issue if you're driving away from the bitumen.

• Keep it in the shade when possible. Don't leave dark-coloured equipment cases in the sun (some people paint theirs white).
  
• Protect film from the heat. E.g. keep all except film needed that day in the middle of a rolled-up sleeping bag.
  
• If dust storms are a possibility, it helps to be able to put your equipment cases into big strong plastic bags. Even if you have an airtight Pelikan or similar, you'll need a brush to get the sand out of the crevices before it's safe to open the case. And a brush to get the sand off the cameras and lenses.
  
• Use a UV or other protective filter. That way there's no risk of scratching a lens while cleaning it. If you're just carrying the camera, keep the lens cap on.
  
• If the camera and lenses have been exposed to a lot of dust, consider sending them to be cleaned after you get home.
  

 

All good advice, but I didn't do any of those things. No filters, no protective bags. You really don't need to keep the lens that clean, just a quick blow out from time to time. I did however mask down my lens hoods to limit fingers (mine and curious children) from accidentally touching the element (I find the Leica hoods generally too wide for the intended lens).

 

If you're going to use a camera in those kinds of environments, it is best to just relax about possible wear and tear.

[Checkland]

cheers john and marcus for the info. thought it would handle the conditions fine but wanted to rest my mind, I assume although the MP is not technically weatherproof, the great design and engineering more than makes up for that?

[nhabedi]

The main worries are heat and dust.

 

Not sand? Just curious, but I've heard stories about sand getting into the lens from others and I once had such a problem myself (albeit with a small digital Ricoh). (On the beach at the North Sea, not in the desert.)

[marcusperkins]

I don't mean to suggest you can bury the Leica in sand, and yes it did get gritty from time to time, but it just kind of worked its way beautifully smooth again after a day of use.

 

Getting sand into a camera with more plastic components (like for example the Ricoh, which is a great little camera, and surprisingly tough) will sound and feel terrible. But in an all metal camera like the MP/M6, it just doesn't seem to cause so much of a problem.

 

If you do what giordano suggests then it is highly unlikely you will have any problems - it is all excellent advice.

 

The one thing you do need to be aware of is lens cleaning in the desert. If you don't use a filter (and I never do), just don't go rubbing dirty lenses clean with a cloth, as you're sure to scratch something across the element. I wouldn't use a brush either, as they always get covered in grease which transfers to the lens (but a brush is great for the rest of the camera). It's surprising how dirty a lens can get, and not remotely affect the performance, although grease from very greasy fingers will have a negative effect.

 

The harsh fact is if you're working in those kind of conditions, the best photos are often when dust is flying around, and it will be practically impossible to keep the camera dust free, so just don't worry about it.

 

The MP/M6 has been absolutely rock solid reliable, the M6 has never been serviced in 15 years of hard international use in really tough environments, neither has the MP been serviced, but I've not had that so long (about 4/5 years).

[giordano]

Not sand? Just curious, but I've heard stories about sand getting into the lens from others and I once had such a problem myself (albeit with a small digital Ricoh). (On the beach at the North Sea, not in the desert.)

 

The sort of dust I was talking about - dust storms etc. - is very fine sand or mineral particles. Much more penetrative than beach sand.

 

Another point is that precautions need to take into account the transport you're going to use. If that's a modern air-conditioned SUV, heat and dust and vibration are much less of a problem than if your equipment has to sit on the open back of a truck with the rest of the gear.

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[giordano]

The one thing you do need to be aware of is lens cleaning in the desert. If you don't use a filter (and I never do), just don't go rubbing dirty lenses clean with a cloth, as you're sure to scratch something across the element. I wouldn't use a brush either, as they always get covered in grease which transfers to the lens (but a brush is great for the rest of the camera). It's surprising how dirty a lens can get, and not remotely affect the performance, although grease from very greasy fingers will have a negative effect.

 

I find that dust on the lens or filter can cause flare if direct sunlight falls on the front glass, so maybe I clean it more often, and maybe that's why i feel it's important to use a filter that's not a disaster if it gets scratched.

 

The harsh fact is if you're working in those kind of conditions, the best photos are often when dust is flying around, and it will be practically impossible to keep the camera dust free, so just don't worry about it.

 

Yes - though at some point "dust flying around" becomes a dust storm and priorities change. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that Leicas (or cameras in general) should be mollycoddled.

[marcusperkins]

I find that dust on the lens or filter can cause flare if direct sunlight falls on the front glass, so maybe I clean it more often, and maybe that's why i feel it's important to use a filter that's not a disaster if it gets scratched.

 

This is very true about dust and flare, and one thing to be aware of. But in reality the light is very diffuse during a dust/sand storm, so there is little chance of flare. But the way I got around the problem of dust and bright light was to use primarily the 35mm summicron: The rubber cap that fits over the lens hood was taped to the hood after I had cut out the exact shape to shade the focal length exactly (plus a little extra to avoid the hood itself from causing a kind of flaring) but it does take some experimenting to get it right.

 

Remember the same hood is used on the 28mm Elmarit asph, so there is ample room to tighten the hood on the 35 (probably on the 28 too). Sure it doesn't look so pretty, but works fantastically. As well as keeping the lens more protected from sun, dust, sand, rain, general damage and fingers, it allowed me to shoot in all sorts of flare-hell conditions. The extra protection also means you never really have to worry about a lens cap.

 

With regards to other comment made about fine dust as opposed to sand - it stands to reason fine dust is more penetrative, but it just did not seem to cause a problem. Sure, dust has worked its way into the rangefinder over the years, but no more so than any other 15 year old camera that sits at home most of the time.

 

Many of the working parts of the Leica have some kind of lubricant which seem to act as a dust trap/barrier anyway (but I don't recommend changing lenses or film during a dust/sand storm).

 

Regardless of differing opinions, and no doubt one or two horror stories, I think we all agree that the mechanical M cameras have proven to be very dependable in environments that ordinarily stop other cameras working.