M9 vs. Nikon D700

[autillo]

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I have and use m8 and d700. Apart from the obvious differences (weight, size, etc,..). I usually shoot with 24-35-50 mm, I don't have any telephoto or zoom, it isn't my style. There is a huge difference on ISO, up to 320 I choose m8 without doubth, from 400-1600 D700 is far better.

I hoped an m9 far better in noise, something like the new D3s or D700 and less megapixels, but it seems m9 is quite good up to 800, and yes leica has some 1,4 lenses so you can compete in low light, but the d700 will be for me best for low light, I don't usually shoot at 1,4 in most shoots, 2, 2,8 or 4 and a very good 1600 do the job for me.

For daily use, daylight, tripod,travel, discretion,...m9 will be best.

 

daniel belenguer

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[gwelland]

I use both a D700 and an M8. in my opinion, both are superb cameras. Using the best glass from Nikon and Leica, they can both give amazing results. But.... I don't see how they can be compared, as they are designed for quite different purpose and method of use. Having said that though, if Leica decided to fit the sensor and electronics from a D700 into an M camera, I would be one happy bunny.

 

And if I could have auto-focus Leica R glass on my D700 or D3x I'd be one totally ecstatic bunny

 

As regards the OP's request for side by side images - I don't think you'd see what you're looking for in just web sized images. Also, as mentioned, we can make them all appear pretty much identical ...

[lars_bergquist]

I agree completely with Nicole. She just said it in a more civilized way, maybe because she is more civilized ... Yes, most Leica glass is superb. Some Nikon glass is extremely good too. But such comparisons may decide between a Nikon and a Canon. We chose a Leica M not so much because of the quality of its lenses, but because the RF way is our preferred way. It is the way of working.

 

The old man from the Age Before M

[mwilliamsphotography]

I'm not to sure about posting side-by-side images on the "great equalizer" ... sub 1 meg compressed sRGB files on the web. To be a true comparison would require the same scene shot at the same time with different cameras using the same focal length.

 

I can relate experiences to date, and render an opinion.

 

I primarily shoot weddings which tend to be a demanding and ferocious rate of application for any camera system.

 

Unlike most "System Users", I use a mixed bag of tools, mostly chosen for specific optics and features rather than just the camera or limitations of any given system.

 

Sony A900, Zeiss Auto Focus 85/1.4 and 135/1.8 ... 25 meg, and in-camera IS which makes all lenses IS, which isn't an option with NIkon/Canon 85 & 135 primes. The color. contrast and 3D rendering of these lenses is second to none. (also use a ZA 24-70 as back up to the Nikon listed below).

 

Nikon D3X, with 14-24 and 24-70 zooms ... 24 meg with terrific nano coated optics. The added security of dual card capture is it's leading camera feature for shooting the "must haves" at a wedding. While I have owned and used most of the Zeiss ZF optics they defeat the astoundingly quick AF of the D3X ... one key reason to own the camera for my work.

 

Leica M9, and a full range of very fast aperture primes ... 24/1.4 ASPH, 28/2 ASPH, 35/1.4 ASPH, 50/0.95 ASPH, 75/2 ASPH. Rangefinders are not for everyone, but I've used one for many decades and I'm relatively skilled at knowing what it can and cannot do.

 

Impressions:

 

The difference between FF 24 meg and 18 meg is negligible. All three cameras are equal in practical resolution for printing larger, or cropping more severely.

 

With good exposure technique and use of proper post profiles or specific calibrations, all three cameras are pretty equal in ISO performance for my applications ... (I rarely exceed ISO 1000 which is why I sold my D3 and D700).

 

For available light work the M9 is the lead horse ... the fastest primes optimized for wider aperture work and no mirror slap make it the tool of choice.

 

For portraits and isolated candid images the Sony takes the lead ... image stabilized longer lens work cannot be underestimated in terms of final IQ.

 

For the more standard shots that are must haves at a wedding, the D3X leads the parade. Sophisticated flash works, dual card capture, astoundingly quick and accurate AF.

 

I take "horses for courses" dead serious ... LOL!

 

Without a doubt, I personally like the images from the M9 the most. They tend to sing next to the files from the other cameras. Don't know exactly why, and frankly I don't care.

However, I seriously doubt a single one of my clients could tell the difference in the end ... which is a good thing.

 

 

The DSLRs are essential for what I do, but with them it's just business ... with the M9 it's mixing business with pleasure. For the first time in years, the M files outnumber the DSLR shots.

 

Attached pic: M9, ISO 800, M 50/0.95 ASPH

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[stunsworth]

Lovely shot.

 

I get the impression that those who are using the M9 to earn their living are in general very happy with the camera.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Lovely shot.

 

I get the impression that those who are using the M9 to earn their living are in general very happy with the camera.

 

I've done four full 8 hour weddings, and some other location assignments with it so far, and so far I can agree with that. Very happy indeed. Since the entire M system fits in a bag that I can barely squeeze the D3X with 24-70 zoom into, my back and shoulder are pretty happy about it also ... LOL!

[carstenw]

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Marc, have you come across any of this magenta-edge business? How do you find the colours in general? I am on the fence with regard to buying an M9 at the moment. The money will be there in early December, but I am wondering if I shouldn't put it to use in other ways. I could make a really good start into a DSLR system, for example, as I have no action camera at all. The Sony A900 + 24-70ZA would still leave change enough for an adapted Leica 100mm f/2,8 Macro, for example.

[stunsworth]

I've done four full 8 hour weddings, and some other location assignments with it so far, and so far I can agree with that. Very happy indeed.

 

If I had the funds I'd swap my M8 for an M9 without a second thought. Despite all of the 'issues' that have been raised I can't see anything that's a deal breaker. Nothing in life is perfect, cameras are no exception.

[glenerrolrd]

I use both systems. Each system has strengths that make it "better" for a specific assignment. I shoot 80% on the street. While I would love to have the high ISO performance of the D700, I find the size and shape of the Nikon a problem on the street. Even though the D700 with a Zeiss 28 or 35/2 is reasonable ...people pick up on it quickly. I keep trying but the M9/M8 is significantly better for street.

 

The D700 is also weather sealed and I find rain,snow and sand to be great photo opportunities. So I will tend to take Nikons in bad weather.

 

Flash is the 3rd advantage of the Nikon s ...even the popup flash with a small defuser ..is a real benefit for fill flash.

 

Finally there are times when I know I will need at least 180mm FOV (like around the water ..no getting closer). Compare a M8 /135apo with a D700 and a Leica R 180....the Nikon is far easier to use.

 

Each system has advantages ....I prefer the M9 for just about anything I can shoot with it....but the D700 has advantages.

[markowich]

I agree completely with Nicole. She just said it in a more civilized way, maybe because she is more civilized ... Yes, most Leica glass is superb. Some Nikon glass is extremely good too. But such comparisons may decide between a Nikon and a Canon. We chose a Leica M not so much because of the quality of its lenses, but because the RF way is our preferred way. It is the way of working.

 

The old man from the Age Before M

 

i respectfully disagree. i find the rangefinder awkward and anachronistic, long since replaced by superior AF technology, which -i am absolutely sure- by far beats even the most proficient M shooter in accuracy. nevertheless i often take out my leica gear, even on trips. the reason is twofold: weight and fast excellent primes. although i must admit that i am sort of disappointed by the 24mm lux, which has far too much CA wide open (yes, even when processed in C1).

p

[mwilliamsphotography]

Marc, have you come across any of this magenta-edge business? How do you find the colours in general? I am on the fence with regard to buying an M9 at the moment. The money will be there in early December, but I am wondering if I shouldn't put it to use in other ways. I could make a really good start into a DSLR system, for example, as I have no action camera at all. The Sony A900 + 24-70ZA would still leave change enough for an adapted Leica 100mm f/2,8 Macro, for example.

 

No, I have not experienced the magenta edging so far ... and I've shot in every type of condition and every ISO. However, my widest lens is a 24 Lux, and I probably will never go any wider. There is still a bit of the IR issue in tungsten lighting conditions, but doing a custom WB in different lighting venues, and a custom LR camera calibration in LR fixes that. I'm sure better M9 profiles and LR presets will be coming once the camera gets into more hands.

 

I've been using the A900 for a full wedding season now and I love it. All the Zeiss lenses are darned good, and the surprise addition was the Sony 70-200/2.8 APO in terms of IQ. (APO does help). Plus, in effect, having 16-35/2.8 and 24-70/2.8 image stabilized lenses is a revelation.

 

I'm to the point with the A900 system that I may sell off all the Nikon gear ... good as it is, it is a bit redundant now that I have confidence in the Sony.

 

The strategy of using a Leica 100/2.8 APO macro is a good one, and my Leica dealer is investigating getting that to happen for me if I do move away from Nikon and lose the 100/2.8VR Macro.

 

If forced to one system it'd be the Sony for the same reason you mentioned ... AF action shots as well as flash works ... something I wouldn't have said at the start of 2009. But I'd be super bummed to not have a M9 ... and would downscale something else before losing it. I can do about 85% of a wedding with it so all I'd need would be a DSLR with a decent 24-70 of any flavor.

 

-Marc

[mwilliamsphotography]

i respectfully disagree. i find the rangefinder awkward and anachronistic, long since replaced by superior AF technology, which -i am absolutely sure- by far beats even the most proficient M shooter in accuracy. nevertheless i often take out my leica gear, even on trips. the reason is twofold: weight and fast excellent primes. although i must admit that i am sort of disappointed by the 24mm lux, which has far too much CA wide open (yes, even when processed in C1).

p

 

For sure AF is superior in certain conditions ... especially action works, but it's not infallible ... occasionally locking on the wrong thing at the wrong time no matter how good you are at using it.

 

The 24 lux wide open comment feels a bit exaggerated as CA happens in severe backlit edge situations, not all conditions ... at least with my copy of the 24 lux and my shooting conditions. In almost all situations C1 Pro did remove it to the point it had no effect on the final print. Not exactly thrilled with any CA at that price point, but the other characteristics of the lens are great, and I've come to love the 24 lux for what I have to shoot.

 

Marc

[k_g_wolf ✝]

>> Marc

 

 

That´s a wonderful wedding photograph up there !

 

Just gorgeous. I´am sure the bride (ect.) liked it as well.

What were their reactions towards this piece of art ?

 

 

 

Best

 

 

GEORG

[Nikkor AIS]

Fantastic wedding capture. Im not sure if Im liking the "look" of the new Noct over the old version. The new one is to perfect.. .

This M9 is really generating some strong emotions and huge interest. It's really great to see Lecia get there time in the sun. Personally I think it's silly to make it a either or with DSLR. There different beast. I see huge upside for using both. I can tell you that there will always be room in my bag for a leica M body.,

 

As far as reliability. I think it's reasonable for a new camera like the M9 to have a couple of bugs when it's first released. My first Nikon D3 blew a fuse twice before Nikon finally replaced it. It kind of goes with the territory with any new technology. No camera is perfect except of course my M3 and the 35 1.4 summilux loaded with Tri-X and me at the controls.

It's like that saying" even monkeys fall out of tree's".

All kidding aside, I think what's interesting is how many people Iv talked to lately are planning on buying a Lecia M9 . And many like myself have top of the line Nikon D3..

And at least a few of my friends have acquired a M body to get up to speed with the range finder.

 

Gregory

[markowich]

Fantastic wedding capture. Im not sure if Im liking the "look" of the new Noct over the old version. The new one is to perfect.. .

This M9 is really generating some strong emotions and huge interest. It's really great to see Lecia get there time in the sun. Personally I think it's silly to make it a either or with DSLR. There different beast. I see huge upside for using both. I can tell you that there will always be room in my bag for a leica M body.,

 

As far as reliability. I think it's reasonable for a new camera like the M9 to have a couple of bugs when it's first released. My first Nikon D3 blew a fuse twice before Nikon finally replaced it. It kind of goes with the territory with any new technology. No camera is perfect except of course my M3 and the 35 1.4 summilux loaded with Tri-X and me at the controls.

It's like that saying" even monkeys fall out of tree's".

All kidding aside, I think what's interesting is how many people Iv talked to lately are planning on buying a Lecia M9 . And many like myself have top of the line Nikon D3..

And at least a few of my friends have acquired a M body to get up to speed with the range finder.

 

Gregory

 

i have the feeling that there is a certain retro-movement, which is created by today's high-tech overload. and the M leicas certainly fit into that line of thought. in fact, i never use many of the features offered in the D3x menu...

peter

[Pointcolville]

My D700 set to AF, Program and ISO 1600 with a 50 F1.4 attached takes technically good photos with very little user input. Add an SB-800 off-camera and you have a quick and efficient rig. Shadows areas can be pushed in PP with little degradation.

 

My M8 with a 28 F2 can produce files that I prefer over the D700 files, but only if I take time to think more carefully about composition, exposure, depth of field and camera and subject movement.

 

Personally I view the requirement for more nuanced user input with the M's as a benefit because it results in more control over the entire process and an image that better reflects my take on a subject.

 

Naturally, a more nuanced and careful approach to shooting a DSLR will yield improved results as well.

 

I'm dodging the question because IQ between the two formats with all other factors being equal is less important than the user experience of using the two formats.

[Jeff S]

The strategy of using a Leica 100/2.8 APO macro is a good one, and my Leica dealer is investigating getting that to happen for me if I do move away from Nikon and lose the 100/2.8VR Macro.Marc

 

The way Sam talks about you, I feel like I know you...you sure know how to keep a dealer happy:D More seriously, having seen some of your work, you do seem to get the most out of your gear...including the wedding shot posted.

 

Regarding Sony, do you know if they have any tilt-shift lenses, or the capability to use other brands? (Use of tilt-shift lenses is another reason for some to add a dslr to an M system...especially for older folks like me no longer willing to deal with heavy LF gear.)

 

Jeff

[lars_bergquist]

i respectfully disagree. i find the rangefinder awkward and anachronistic, long since replaced by superior AF technology [ ... ]

 

"It's modern" is the argument proffered when there is no relevant argument to be found. I use the tools that suit me best, and I do not give a damn if they were invented yesterday, or during the Iron Age (just try improving on a hand axe). Anachronistic? Yes, and proudly, when rationality becomes out of date.

 

And superior? Yes, with a long-throw tele. I never had much use for them. Otherwise, the RF is both faster and more precise. Check your technique.

 

The old man who was 18 when the M3 was launched

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[jlancasterd]

I use both a D700 and an M8. in my opinion, both are superb cameras. Using the best glass from Nikon and Leica, they can both give amazing results.

 

Me too likewise, except I've recently changed the M8 for an M9...

 

Like you, I find that both cameras give excellent results when paired with the appropriate lenses.

 

However... The M9 fitted with a 35mm Summarit, and with a 21mm Elmarit and a 75mm CV in reserve, makes a much less conspicuous 'walk around' outfit than the D700 with a 24-70 Nikkor zoom - and is much less hard on the shoulder and/or neck muscles.

 

I tend to use the D700 in situations where I know I may have to change focal lengths quickly between shots, or if I'm working outdoors and the weather is uncertain. Otherwise I take the M9 outfit in a very unobtrusive LowePro NovaMini AW bag.

[markowich]

For sure AF is superior in certain conditions ... especially action works, but it's not infallible ... occasionally locking on the wrong thing at the wrong time no matter how good you are at using it.

 

The 24 lux wide open comment feels a bit exaggerated as CA happens in severe backlit edge situations, not all conditions ... at least with my copy of the 24 lux and my shooting conditions. In almost all situations C1 Pro did remove it to the point it had no effect on the final print. Not exactly thrilled with any CA at that price point, but the other characteristics of the lens are great, and I've come to love the 24 lux for what I have to shoot.

 

Marc

 

marc,

i kept the 24mm LUX and yes, it is a great lens. i am just somewhat allergic to CA.

p