artears Posted October 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am interested in a comparison between the two above. Let me make the things clarify a bit: I am looking at a lens, which would give me more or less 35mm efov on M8, which I can use without an external viewfinder. I know the focal lengths are a bit different -25mm vs. 28mm-, however a used price of a Leica 28mm elmarit asph is close to the new price of a Zeiss 25mm biogon and not having seen either, I cannot be sure about the usability of those two lenses on M8 considering that I am wearing glasses as well. I am also a bit hesitant with 28mm since it is a bit close to 35mm, which I have also. I would like to hear your comments about the optical qualities of those two lenses and their usage on M8, also in case of 28mm, I would like to know if you think whether it is too close to 35mm or not. As a side note, I was looking at 21mm just as one additional lens to 35-75 combo I have, but I think I would get either 25 or 28 as the widest without an external viewfinder and add either a voigtlander 15mm or zeiss 18mm to that. I decided that I would love to have one more lens, which is wider than 28mm efov that the 21mm can give... So at the end, the first lens will probably be 25 or 28mm, the second one will be 15 or 18mm, probably depending on the first choice... I am leaning towards 25mm as of now, but I cannot be sure because I wear glasses and I have seen some complaints before. There is also no direct comparison between the optical qualities of these two lenses, 25mm biogon and 28 elmarit asph, although their costs and efov on M8 are very close... Any information is greatly appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Hi artears, Take a look here M8: Zeiss 25mm biogon vs Leica 28mm elmarit asph?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted October 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2009 I have the 28mm ASPH Elmarit - there was an earlier non aspherical version. It's a wonderful lens and the one I take with me when I want to use the M8 with a single lens. I don't think you'll be disappointed with one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhrads Posted October 28, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 28, 2009 25Biogon is an amazing lens. I also have a 28 biogon that collects dust. Great lens also, but too close to the 35 cron that spends a lot of time on the camera. I would strongly reommend the 25 Biogon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 29, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 29, 2009 The Elmarit is much more compact (39mm filters versus 46mm). But optically, the two lenses have much in common; both are very crisp high-contrast lenses. Equivalent fields of view on the M8 are 28mm = 37mm 25mm = 33mm You take your pick. But I agree that the two focal lengths of 35 and 28mm are too close. I do never carry both a 35 and a 28. Two or three steps forward or back will equalise the difference in most situations -- unless you are shooting landscapes of course. But though a 21 is perhaps the most natural companion to a 35, 24/25mm has always been my favourite 'real wide' lens (on a full format camera, of course -- but a M9 may be in your future). Using it is much less problematical, less risk of perspectival distortion, less superfluous foreground, quicker action. So my 25mm Biogon does sometimes make the 28mm Summicron company in my bag. The old man from the Age of the Contax 21mm Biogon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artears Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 30, 2009 Thank you for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I decided to eliminate 28mm then.. For a 24/25mm, do you think if 24mm elmar f/3.8 will be a good option vs 25mm biogon? I have seen a few pictures from 24mm elmar and they looked like they had more punch than the elmarit asph. However, I did not see any comparison so far to focus on 25mm biogon vs 24mm elmar. I will try to locate elmar in a used condition of course, so the price difference won't be that much, but there is still one stop difference.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted October 30, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 30, 2009 Having shot for many years with a 35 on a M2, I went for the 28 Elmarit on the M8. No regrets. Like the lens, nice and compact. The 35 'cron didn't work for me at all. Just seemed boring on the camera. Recently added a 21 CV, which gives a refreshing wider view without too much distortion (keeping the 15 CV company - also good to have). Not sure about the 24/25 - perhaps its just right, perhaps its a bit too much in between. Will you be happy with the f stop? On the 21, I like the depth, and on the 28, f 2.8 is nice to have. F2 would be better, but not for the size/cost. One person's .02. FWIW, the 50 'cron has turned out to be a wonderful lens on the M8. Great depth, bokeh, and with f2, you actually can find the focal plane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 30, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) .....For a 24/25mm, do you think if 24mm elmar f/3.8 will be a good option vs 25mm biogon? ........ Does the Zeiss 25 bring up the 24 mm framelines? Whether or not, it isn't coded which needs to be considered in your costing. I started with one lens on the M8 [24 f2.8]; loved the lens, hated the intrusion to my picture construction of the twinned 35 mm framelines - in this respect a 28 mm is much more user friendly. The 25 Zeiss is a large-ish lens with it's lens hood and viewfinder blockage needs to be considered in your evaluation. I'd heartily recommend you invest in a subscription to Reid Reviews : http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/ There, many of the issues affecting your choice will be resolved for you. I recommend Sean's reviews [in particular] on the 28 Summicron, The Leica 24 f2.8, and especially the Leica f3.8, which is a small unobtrusive lens. If you read a few of Sean's reviews you will get a sense of the design characteristics of Zeiss lenses - in particular their macro and micro contrast. I have my own preferences regarding lens contrast, but it's for you to decide what you want which is why I suggest some enjoyable reading. Good luck. ............... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artears Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted October 30, 2009 Thank you for the feedback. I already subscribed to reid reviews and I think the subscription money is well spent. His review about 24 elmar made me consider this lens and also the fact that he recommended it to one of his friends. Erwin Puts also has been impressed with the little elmar. Before seeing those two, I was more inclined to 25 zeiss, however 24 elmar seems to be very good. Unfortunately, only thing I could get by reading those two reviews is that 24 elmar resolves more than both elmarit and biogon at comparable apertures and elmar's contrast is close to the 25 zeiss (Sean Reid). Erwin Puts does not have any comparison with 25 zeiss and Sean does not have anything directly, the above comments are deducted from his 24/25 rf lens test, where elmarit was just a bit better than biogon and his 24mm elmar test, where elmar was better than elmarit at comparable apertures. But, he also mentions elmar is more contrasty like zeiss and I wonder how much resolution difference we are talking about. I also checked the flange problem with 25mm zeiss, it seems like you can buy the lens with the correct flange to bring up 24-35 framelines and then it can be hand-coded. Both lenses accept 46mm filter, so there is no difference there... The widest aperture of f/3.8 is not much of a problem for me, this lens will be used mostly outside and I can hand-hold the camera at much slower speeds compared to a dslr. I have taken pictures at 1/15 using a 75mm lens and they turned out good. With 24mm, slower than 1/15 will be possible. Sean and Erwin really got me confused, I was happy with 25mm zeiss option . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 30, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 30, 2009 The Elmar is very good -- it should damn well be, with that maximum aperture! The Biogon is nearly twice as fast, half as expensive, and has a sensible hood arrangement, not Leica's new cheapo solution. There exists only one rational way of attaching a hood to a lens, and that is a front bayonet. Cosina can do that with lenses that cost one quarter of the (roughly) comparable Leica lens. Medium format lenses, including the S2 Summarit ones, have front bayonets generally, because pros won't tolerate crap. Why Leica have come up with this silly screw thread, which cannot save them very much money with hoods that are already pretty complicated to machine, is simply beyond me. The old man from the Age of the FIKUS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted October 30, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 30, 2009 The widest aperture of f/3.8 is not much of a problem for me, this lens will be used mostly outside and I can hand-hold the camera at much slower speeds compared to a dslr. I have taken pictures at 1/15 using a 75mm lens and they turned out good. With 24mm, slower than 1/15 will be possible.. I don't know if you've tried this with the M8. Often, these digital solutions don't tolerate slow shutter speeds hand held. For whatever reason - blur seems more pronounced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artears Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted October 31, 2009 I don't know if you've tried this with the M8. Often, these digital solutions don't tolerate slow shutter speeds hand held. For whatever reason - blur seems more pronounced. Yeap, I tried it with M8 and 75 cron used wide open iso320 hand held. Turned out very good in fact. I would not think of doing it on a dslr, the mirror slapping will have a bad effect and the combo will be much heavier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artears Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted October 31, 2009 Thank you lars for your comments. The hood arrangement is ok with both cases, I will put the hood there and won't remove it. Your remark about the speed difference makes sense, but I am trying to figure out if I need that additional stop or not... I am just listing some pros/cons, which also probably will help me in my decision: Zeiss pros over Leica 1. Twice as fast 2. Half the cost Leica pros: 1. At comparable apertures, it seems to perform a bit better according to the reviews I read so far. 2. Comes already 6-bit coded 3. Passport warranty is better than the standard warranty from zeiss Feel free to add anything to these lists or to post any pictures from those two lenses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdubois Posted November 3, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 3, 2009 Hi, I always thought the 35 was too close to a 50 on film so I decided to go with the 25 as a modest wide angle on the M8. One factor to consider regarding the Biogon is that the standard Zeiss mount doesn't bring up the proper frame lines on the M8. Zeiss will modify the lens for you or alternatively, you can buy one from Tony Rose at PopFlash Photo with the alternate mount already installed. I use both the 25/2.8 and the 21/2.8 Biogons on my M8. I had the 21 modified after I bought it used and bought the 25 new from Tony with the mount installed. Both lenses have been handed coded using a Dremel tool and M-Coder kit. Although I don't have any Leica lenses in those focal lengths I do own several others and feel the Zeiss and CV lenses I own are right up there in image quality. Regards, Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 3, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 3, 2009 my 25 brings up the 28 frame lines but i have got used to this as in reality it matches pretty well with what is see through the full viewfinder. --------------- David Sampson Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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