bybrett Posted October 26, 2009 Share #61 Posted October 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) That is precisely the reason why, IMO, they should remain separate. The M8 is a different camera from the M9, and has different "issues" Agree, in fact it is a different format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Hi bybrett, Take a look here M9 & M8 Forum merge?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bybrett Posted October 26, 2009 Share #62 Posted October 26, 2009 I don't see much point in merging the forums. The M8 and M9 are really quite different given the crop factor and sensor issues, so discussions about lens choices for example, will be specific to one camera or the other (as we have already seen some lenses behave quite differently on the FF M9 sensor). The M8 is now a 'mature' product so the M9 forum can concentrate on all of the early adopter issues etc. It also makes it easy for new visitors to the forum looking for M9 information - and Andreas has pointed out that this is bringing a lot of new traffic here which can only be a good thing. I agree. The M8 is as it is and contributors already have a wealth of knowledge about it. M9 is still bringing new issues to the table and these will be better served and solved in isolation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #63 Posted October 26, 2009 I see you are hell-bent at stirring up another storm in a teacup. I expressed an opinion. Andreas presented facts. You presented cod statistics. No contest. "8 out of 10 owners said their cats preferred it" "8 out of 10 owners that expressed a preference said their cats preferred it" See the difference? No, probably not. My answer is NO. In sailing circles some people favour catamarangs and these are the people that say if you dont have a CAT you have a DOG... Maybe that is too subtle for you, but for sure your anlysis above does not gel with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #64 Posted October 26, 2009 I agree. The M8 is as it is and contributors already have a wealth of knowledge about it. M9 is still bringing new issues to the table and these will be better served and solved in isolation. Brett I respect your opinion as always and I partially agree your argument (M8 is mature M9 in new kid on the block with most likely issues still to resolve; M8 has the crop factor issue). That said there is huge commonality between both systems based on the same sensor technology, same graphics chip set, same shutter firmware issues, and going forward same post production software . I also believe as discussed that end of next year there will be a M10 as Leica will need this from a business viewpoint, and an M converged forum would be best able to give inputs for such an item. If we go down the route of looking for differences such as crop factor to define each forum then why stop there ....why not have a forum M9 for windows users and M9 for Mac users! FYI Increasingly I am seeing significant divergence as post production becomes more important. You use Fotomagico (Boinx) for your very excellent presentations but this is only available on Mac. ...the PC equivalent is different. Also I am thinking of buying an 18mm for my M8, but now I see on the M9 thread that this lens has issues of a red line at the side. I want to know about issues like this so that I do not make a £1800 investment that will cause me problems when I upgrade to full frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EarlBurrellPhoto Posted October 26, 2009 Share #65 Posted October 26, 2009 I think perhaps eventually the forums could be merged, but rather not right now. At some point more people may have binned their M8 for an M9, but at present why force M8 owners to wade past the odes, love-fests and testaments, and to wait whilst fuzzy, off-colour 100% crops load from early-adopters attempting to 'prove' the superiority of their new acquisition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted October 26, 2009 Share #66 Posted October 26, 2009 FYI Increasingly I am seeing significant divergence as post production becomes more important. You use Fotomagico (Boinx) for your very excellent presentations but this is only available on Mac. ...the PC equivalent is different. Also I am thinking of buying an 18mm for my M8, but now I see on the M9 thread that this lens has issues of a red line at the side. I want to know about issues like this so that I do not make a £1800 investment that will cause me problems when I upgrade to full frame. I agree perhaps there should be Post Mac and Post PC... They seem to have different issues. Remember 18mm on a M8 is the same as 24mm on a M9. I don't think there is a 18mm for the M8... that would be a 14mm... on the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 26, 2009 Share #67 Posted October 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Also I am thinking of buying an 18mm for my M8, but now I see on the M9 thread that this lens has issues of a red line at the side. I want to know about issues like this so that I do not make a £1800 investment that will cause me problems when I upgrade to full frame. BigSplashErfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 24.06.2008 Location: South of France Posts: 668 Erm, these are French Pounds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #68 Posted October 26, 2009 I think perhaps eventually the forums could be merged, but rather not right now. At some point more people may have binned their M8 for an M9, but at present why force M8 owners to wade past the odes, love-fests and testaments, and to wait whilst fuzzy, off-colour 100% crops load from early-adopters attempting to 'prove' the superiority of their new acquisition. Earl you have an interesting perspective that in many ways I share. That said in my case I have rediscovered Leica photography in June this year with my M8 purchase and I really like this camera. I shall buy now more lenses knowing at a future date I shall use these lenses on a FF digital Leica and it most likely will NOT be the M9. I think that seeing the trials and tribulations and frankly great work done by the likes of Chris Tribble, Brett, and several others is going to help me with getting the best from my M8 and in getting prepared for the next camera I shall buy (M10?). Frankly I suspect that these early adopters will NOT be posting too much on the M8 forum. I also believe that Solms will not be too interested in reading the M8 forum either so pleading for M8 firmware upgrades will get lost in the noise in my view. Having such M8 requests in a well read M9 Forum may carry more weight at Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted October 26, 2009 Share #69 Posted October 26, 2009 Brett I respect your opinion as always and I partially agree your argument (M8 is mature M9 in new kid on the block with most likely issues still to resolve; M8 has the crop factor issue).That said there is huge commonality between both systems based on the same sensor technology, same graphics chip set, same shutter firmware issues, and going forward same post production software . I also believe as discussed that end of next year there will be a M10 as Leica will need this from a business viewpoint, and an M converged forum would be best able to give inputs for such an item. If we go down the route of looking for differences such as crop factor to define each forum then why stop there ....why not have a forum M9 for windows users and M9 for Mac users! FYI Increasingly I am seeing significant divergence as post production becomes more important. You use Fotomagico (Boinx) for your very excellent presentations but this is only available on Mac. ...the PC equivalent is different. Also I am thinking of buying an 18mm for my M8, but now I see on the M9 thread that this lens has issues of a red line at the side. I want to know about issues like this so that I do not make a £1800 investment that will cause me problems when I upgrade to full frame. Frank, yes please... I'll sign up for the M9 forum for Mac users. The two models may be similar in technology but they are very different from a user point of view. It's not easy to have 8 and 9 in the same bag on the same job. The results and current issues are different. The Forum is just a filing system. Are you thinking of an 18mm for M8 or M9. Are you thinking of buying M9?? If so why not have a look at 24mm...? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 26, 2009 Share #70 Posted October 26, 2009 Frankly I suspect that these early adopters will NOT be posting too much on the M8 forum. Why would they? They are using a different camera. I also believe that Solms will not be too interested in reading the M8 forum either so pleading for M8 firmware upgrades will get lost in the noise in my view. Having such M8 requests in a well read M9 Forum may carry more weight at Solms. Why not? If they are looking to upgrade M8 firmware, where would the most obvious place be to look in the forum for what users are saying? Erm... let me think... Sorry Frank, you seem to be all over the place on this one. First you want to merge, now you don't. Or maybe you do. I can't tell any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 26, 2009 Share #71 Posted October 26, 2009 pleading for M8 firmware upgrades will get lost in the noise in my view. In that vein, I would *love* for the M8 to get the exposure bracketing options of the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted October 26, 2009 Share #72 Posted October 26, 2009 I think we need an M10 forum! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 26, 2009 Share #73 Posted October 26, 2009 And an M7.2 forum. Just in case, you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 26, 2009 Share #74 Posted October 26, 2009 I think we need an M10 forum! I think that we need to get a grip on reality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #75 Posted October 26, 2009 Why would they? They are using a different camera. Why not? If they are looking to upgrade M8 firmware, where would the most obvious place be to look in the forum for what users are saying? Erm... let me think... Sorry Frank, you seem to be all over the place on this one. First you want to merge, now you don't. Or maybe you do. I can't tell any more. You have missed the point.......Solms are only going to be interested going forward in M9 and ideas for M10. They have no interest in M8 and providing M8 firmware for example will not be on their radar screen unless they are held to account on a forum read by all (ie M9 Forum) ....please think about it! I DO from my side want to merge both forums, and that is why I started this posting. I have absolutely NOT changed my mind. That said if everyone else disagrees fine. So far I am seeing those that use FF film Leica M's, and those that have sold their M8 or are wedded to M9 disagree for a short merge. in the short term...overall most other people see the logic of a merge, and the discussion is when to do it. Andreas seems to give arguments about the difficulty of doing it from a persective of URL search engine hits...but he does NOT rule it out as I understand it. I ask Andreas to give some feedback on this...Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 26, 2009 Share #76 Posted October 26, 2009 Solms ... have no interest in M8 and providing M8 firmware for example will not be on their radar screen unless they are held to account on a forum read by all (ie M9 Forum) ....please think about it! Says who? Who has said that they have no further interest in the M8? Certainly not Leica. It has already been shown on this thread that not everyone who has an M8 reads the M9 sub-section - it is most certainly not universal. I am sure that if Solms choose to read the forum, and want to know about the M8, there is one obvious place for them to start. And it's not the M9 sub-section. I am fed up discussing this with you, to be honest. If you want to get a message directly to Andreas, send him a PM at "admin" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted October 26, 2009 Share #77 Posted October 26, 2009 I think that we need to get a grip on reality I think thats what we are trying to tell you to do... There is a a lot of commonality between the different models of the Digital M's. Yes there are model specific differences, but thats true in any camera family. The idea to split them, IMO was in error. What we need is a place where the exuberance of any new model gets discussed, while the core discussion of Digital M Photography continues unabated. I am not sure how that would work in this environment, so I guess splitting them seemed logical, but in the overall scheme of things, there must be a better way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #78 Posted October 26, 2009 Says who? Who has said that they have no further interest in the M8? Certainly not Leica. It has already been shown on this thread that not everyone who has an M8 reads the M9 sub-section - it is most certainly not universal. I am sure that if Solms choose to read the forum, and want to know about the M8, there is one obvious place for them to start. And it's not the M9 sub-section. I am fed up discussing this with you, to be honest. If you want to get a message directly to Andreas, send him a PM at "admin" Leica would be stupid to announce that they have no interest in M8...That said there are many, many threads posted in the Forum that are begging for visibility on: M8 firmware fixes for known issues since now years (NO RESPONSE), M9 firmware features to be made available, even at a price for features such as manual lens selection, and battery state on the monitor etc (NO RESPONSE). Frankly I think it very naive to expect Leica to in any way respond until they are forced or emabarassed to do so. The M9 is the only vehicle that could do that as Leica will want to show to future clients that they look after their old clients. My view is that the executive team are looking exclusively at shipping M9, the new lenses and getting ready for M10........M8 is history unless they are forced to recognise that people like me bought a Leica M8 in July 2009 (4 months ago) and now I feel treated like a Nikon or Canon client, which is a new paradign for Leica. Hell even Adobe offer upgrades of their software. Previously the message was that Leica will provide upgrades etc and now this is very unclear. I firmly believe that having such issues raised in an exclusively M8 Forum is a dont care for Leica management. If it is in a M9 /M8 forum it gets the required visibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #79 Posted October 26, 2009 I think that we need to get a grip on reality No really redbaron is correct..how else can we capture the needs for M10, and then have a ready made place for the new M10 owners (late next year ?) to help us enjoy their new toy. I hope I am one of the lucky ones as I may just get my name down for the next generation. That said I am watching M9 forum as an M8 owner with great interest these days as I am far from certain that being an early adopter of a new Leica digital camera is truly good news. Again this is a reason for merging the forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted October 26, 2009 Share #80 Posted October 26, 2009 I think that we need to get a grip on reality Ok... What if the M10 has no real architectural changes from the M9. Just a updated Kodak FF sensor, with better frame lines, faster processor, larger buffers? Based on Andy Barton's logic, that would not require a separate forum. M9/M10 would be still together... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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