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M8 Detail,Dynamic Range and Color


Guest guy_mancuso

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Guest guy_mancuso

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Guest guy_mancuso

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Alexander, that is a nice shot. :)

 

The R-D1 uses a Nikon sensor, right? I've noticed that their sensors, while noisier than Canon's at high ISOs, seem to have - for lack of a better term - a more film-like look to their noise, as opposed to the greasy smooth look Canon often has. I don't know the technical explanation, but it is noticeable.

 

With that in mind...

 

Bottom line is I spent the better part of the last year making Nikon files look like film and it is doable and repatable

 

Bill, could you post an example that demonstrates this, as I'd really love to see it.

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Alexander, that is a nice shot. :)

 

Thanks Kevin...

 

"The R-D1 uses a Nikon sensor, right? I've noticed that their sensors, while noisier than Canon's at high ISOs, seem to have - for lack of a better term - a more film-like look to their noise, as opposed to the greasy smooth look Canon often has. I don't know the technical explanation, but it is noticeable."

 

The R-D1 uses a Sony sensor, but you are right, it's the same sensor as Nikon D70/s, and i agree, i used a 1Ds MKII for a while but i think the "to clean, butterly/greasy look" of the Canon files are a real "turnoff" so i sold it...

 

"With that in mind..."

 

 

 

"Bill, could you post an example that demonstrates this, as I'd really love to see it.

"

 

I would like to see some of his images aswell :-)

 

Best Regards

 

Alexander Tufte

http://www.alexandertufte.com

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Bill, could you post an example that demonstrates this, as I'd really love to see it.

 

I don't really have any examples that are mine to post. I have a couple scans that I worked up and I have had several requests from a stock agency to try to make slide scans look more like digital (more latitude, less dynamic range, more open shadows).

 

If you have a picture that you think looks very digital I can do my best to make it look more film like (color only, I don't know anything about B&W), but it generally works best if there is a film reference slide to work against.

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This was touched on earlier, but part of what makes the look of the image is the film curve. In digital that translates to the calibration or profile of the camera, and in my opinion that is the most important and hardest thing to do. In the Leica world I have not found one yet for the DMR that is really good. I have not used any for the Canon that were anything beyond garbage. I have a couple profiles for a D2x on ACR that are pretty decent, but certainly not perfect or good for all applications (think Velvia skin tones) and one for the D200 that is mediocre, but still a huge improvement over canned profiles.

 

Remember the software is really what determines the color, the camera just spits out a lot of ones and zeros. The key to great looking images is how those ones and zeros are interpreted.

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...the camera just spits out a lot of ones and zeros.

 

But those ones and zeroes are neither perfect or 'neutral.' My question remains, can those ones and zeroes be made to have the tonality, depth and skin tones of a well-done negative. Some images in this thread come closer than others, but too many look like digital p&s snaps, $5,000 camera and $3,000 lens be damned. :(

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.

 

Remember the software is really what determines the color, the camera just spits out a lot of ones and zeros. The key to great looking images is how those ones and zeros are interpreted.

 

aren't there two profiles at least: how the ones and zeros get generated from the information coming into the camera, and then the software profile to output?

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But those ones and zeroes are neither perfect or 'neutral.' My question remains, can those ones and zeroes be made to have the tonality, depth and skin tones of a well-done negative. Some images in this thread come closer than others, but too many look like digital p&s snaps, $5,000 camera and $3,000 lens be damned. :(

 

No they are neither perfect nor neutral. Neither is negative film, it is orange. Both of those are starting points, it is where you go from there that matters. Negative film is a different beast and in my comments about making digital look like film I should have specified slide film, not negative film. I have not shot enough negative film to really get a handle on what it does, or should, look like.

 

Trying to be as nice as I can here, I'll just say that you clearly have your mind made up and any arguments I can share or images I can offer would not sway your position, so why bother trying.

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Trying to be as nice as I can here, I'll just say that you clearly have your mind made up and any arguments I can share or images I can offer would not sway your position, so why bother trying.

 

Bill, I don't have my mind made up at all. (that's just my trouble, just ask my wife! :D )

I'd love it if you could post an image that demonstrates the claims you make, I really would.

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Kevin, check your PM box. Most of it has been trying to match Velvia or Kodachrome, not negative film. I think I have a couple images on my HD I can post tonight, but understand that the attempt was to increase dynamic range at the expense of latitude, and saturation at the expense of skin tones which from my understanding of your posts is pretty much opposite of what you are looking for.

 

Also understand that the image that I PM'd you was the first attempt and the web reproduction is terrible.

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But those ones and zeroes are neither perfect or 'neutral.' My question remains, can those ones and zeroes be made to have the tonality, depth and skin tones of a well-done negative. Some images in this thread come closer than others, but too many look like digital p&s snaps, $5,000 camera and $3,000 lens be damned. :(

 

 

Ok, here's another one.... (D200)

 

http://www.alexandertufte.com/_D203280.jpg

 

Best Regards

 

Alexander Tufte

http://www.alexandertufte.com

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Just a short note, we are all talking about digital files which should look more like film.. We don't have ONE pciture shot with both mediums side by side. I really don't believe that film look is so exclusive. Now before someone asks me to post a digital file which looks like film. I don't know how the same image would look in film... so I don't even try matching them.

 

Now give me a side by side shot from a camera like the M8 or sim. and a film camera you like. I really think it shoudl be possible to match both really close.

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But those ones and zeroes are neither perfect or 'neutral.' My question remains, can those ones and zeroes be made to have the tonality, depth and skin tones of a well-done negative. Some images in this thread come closer than others, but too many look like digital p&s snaps, $5,000 camera and $3,000 lens be damned. :(

 

And another one... (R-D1)

 

http://www.alexandertufte.com/EPSN0125.jpg

 

 

 

Best Regards

 

Alexander Tufte

http://www.alexandertufte.com

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Guest guy_mancuso

Well if i am going to make any file from digital look like film than it will be Kodachrome and that look i can get from the DMR and the M8 . Like i said B&W is a different style all together and not used so heavily except for the gallery approach. Those last samples if i put some grain in there 90 percent of the population would have no idea what they came from. I think folks trying to get digital files to look like film than need to get a camera that has the exposure latitude to do it and learn how to get it done in post. It is not going to look like that coming out of the camera

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