ho_co Posted January 31, 2009 Share #1 Posted January 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Am trying to illustrate a point about D-Lux 4 that only occurs when C1 produces a TIFF from the RWL file. But try as I might, I can't downsize the TIFF enough to upload. Even when I've downsized the file to 150 x 100 pixels at 50 dpi, and saved in PSCS2 as a Quality 2 JPG, the file still has a size of 510 KB. (At that point, the file quality is mud, but it's still twice the size of the forum max.) Even if I make a 72 dpi screen image of a more reasonably sized TIFF, it's to big to upload. What is different about TIFFs? I can create samples from DNGs and PSDs with no trouble. What am I doing wrong with these TIFFs? Thanks in advance for any insight! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Hi ho_co, Take a look here what am I doing wrong with TIFFs?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted January 31, 2009 Share #2 Posted January 31, 2009 When you are happy with the image you want to upload (and you are working in Photoshop), you need to resize to a max of 960 x 960 pixels. It needs to be converted to 8 bit, and you should make sure that it's converted to sRGB profile, if it isn't already. Then, in the Save As dialog box, you choose jpg, and then adjust the quality accordingly, so that it is below 240kb Tiff themselves are not recognised by web browsers, so they have to be save as jpgs to be useable on the web. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted January 31, 2009 Andy, thanks, but that's where my problem begins. I produce the image I want, downsize to 150 x 100 pixels, Save As JPG Quality 2 (!) and get a file that's 510 KB. I can do what you say starting with PNG or JPG or PSD with no problem. But starting with a TIFF, for some reason, I can't downsize it enough to upload. For some reason, even creation of a small screen capture PNG takes up much more space from a TIFF original than from the other formats. Would you try it? Produce a TIFF and then, working from that image, can you downsize enough to save as a JPG that you can upload? I know that what I'm saying makes no sense, but that's why I need to know whether it's me or the nature of the TIFF. I'm using a Mac, and as you surmised, Photoshop. And thanks for reminding me to convert to sRGB before uploading. I tend to neglect that step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 31, 2009 Share #4 Posted January 31, 2009 That's got me foxed, Howard. It must be something in the C1/RAW process Have you tried using another RAW developer? And, is there any reason why using a PSD file instead is not an option in the short term? I can't think of one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 31, 2009 Share #5 Posted January 31, 2009 Can you post the tif somewhere - sounds like something about that tif is not quite right..... Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks to you both. I'm trying to illustrate the three different corrections available to D-Lux 4 users. (It may not be worth our while, but I am very grateful for your responses.) --C1 TIFFs are more strongly corrected than the following formats: --All Adobe files from the RWLs have the same fairly complete correction as the straight-out-of-camera JPGs. --C1 DNGs from the RWLs (no longer available in C1 version 4.6) are uncorrected and show a great deal of distortion, i.e. a great deal more subject area, which can be used to good effect. (Sandy, you posted a link a few days back in this regard, but concerning the fact that Panasonic has apparently asked Adobe to make the original unrecoverable after conversion.) So to your question: Only C1's TIFFs show the property I'm talking about, so that's the format I need to use. (If I made a TIFF from Photoshop, it would have the Adobe corrections.) The fact that you both find this problem off the wall is a good indication that it's something I've messed up. (I'm a complete novice with Capture One.) What's the name of that large-file transfer site? I'll gladly ship you one of the files in question. The reason for my interest: 1) Leica released the D-Lux 4 with a version of C1 that allowed us to get an uncorrected DNG: It was okay then. 2) Leica has apparently now asked Phase One to disable the ability to generate DNGs from the camera: It's no longer okay. But here's where it gets interesting: 3) Adobe says their files apply the full degree of correction that Leica and Panasonic have requested (and that correction matches the camera's own JPGs). 4) But Capture One TIFFs have a much higher degree of correction, almost completely eliminating the distortion. These differences are of real interest to me, though I guess general interest isn't that high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 31, 2009 Share #7 Posted January 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Howard, go to YouSendIt - Send large files - transfer delivery - FTP Replacement And send it to yourself (your own email address) then post the link they send you here. FWIW, I've never had any trouble with downsizing C1 TIFFs (in Photoshop, I presume). Did you try "save for Web?" ETA--it sournds to me like you're doing something wrong in PS with resizing the image. I just took a C1 output TIFF from 30 mb to 91KB saving in PS as "quality 8" after resizing the pixel dimensions to about 640 pixels wide. Result? About 80kb of picture data (and that includes the ICC profile).... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/75695-what-am-i-doing-wrong-with-tiffs/?do=findComment&comment=796104'>More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 31, 2009 Share #8 Posted January 31, 2009 Howard, Just by way of experiment, I opened a RWL file I have in the latest version of C1, saved as a tif at 25% size (1.2MB size), then opened the tif in Aperture, and exported as 1/4 size JPEG with quality 8. I ended up with a 12k file. Sorry I don't have Photoshop, but in my scenario, everything seems to work the way you'd expect. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aauckland Posted January 31, 2009 Share #9 Posted January 31, 2009 As said above, you need to use the "save for web" function. The workflow is as follows: 1) Copy and resize original Tiff file, (say to 500 pixels long) 2) Save for web; ie File/Save for web, ...with approx 80% compression, (adjust this compression setting to keep file size below the 240kb limit.) Regards Alan ------------ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aauckland Posted January 31, 2009 Share #10 Posted January 31, 2009 PS Obviously when using the "save for web" function, you set to save as a Jpeg. Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted January 31, 2009 Share #11 Posted January 31, 2009 Am trying to illustrate a point about D-Lux 4 that only occurs when C1 produces a TIFF from the RWL file. But try as I might, I can't downsize the TIFF enough to upload. Even when I've downsized the file to 150 x 100 pixels at 50 dpi, and saved in PSCS2 as a Quality 2 JPG, the file still has a size of 510 KB. (At that point, the file quality is mud, but it's still twice the size of the forum max.) Even if I make a 72 dpi screen image of a more reasonably sized TIFF, it's to big to upload. What is different about TIFFs? I can create samples from DNGs and PSDs with no trouble. What am I doing wrong with these TIFFs? Thanks in advance for any insight! I've struggled with this one too. Try dragging a typical large forum-posted jpeg on to your paste board, opening in PS and checking image size. You'll often find it seems way over permitted max. For example I posted an image of 1.63M = 960x593 pixels, 338.67x209.2mm 72dpi and it was fine (Thread Other/Summaron 35 3.5 if you want to see it). Just try uploading a file of around these parameters, RGB/8bit as noted above! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 31, 2009 Share #12 Posted January 31, 2009 Howard it does sound like you are doing something wrong in PS. Here is a M8 image converted in C1 to a TIFF @ 300PPI. Opened in PS CS4 and then made into a JPEG using the action I made for posting to this web forum. The final size of the file, @ 960x646 240PPI saved at the 10 quality, is 193KB. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Try Re-Saving the TIFF file in PS first. I've had some odd TIFF file made by C1. Bridge couldn't read them until I did a SAVE in PS. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Try Re-Saving the TIFF file in PS first. I've had some odd TIFF file made by C1. Bridge couldn't read them until I did a SAVE in PS. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/75695-what-am-i-doing-wrong-with-tiffs/?do=findComment&comment=796531'>More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted February 1, 2009 Share #13 Posted February 1, 2009 {snipped}Try Re-Saving the TIFF file in PS first. I've had some odd TIFF file made by C1. Bridge couldn't read them until I did a SAVE in PS. Hey Ed, I think that says more about Bridge than C1, to tell the truth. No application I've ever used has trouble with C1-produced TIFFs. @Howard, remember too, it's just the pixel dimensions that you need to worry about. PPI means nothing on screen. So if you shoot for 600 to 800 pixels along the longest edge, you should be fine no matter what JPEG method of saving you use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 1, 2009 Share #14 Posted February 1, 2009 A tif file that is 150 pixels x 100 pixels x 3 colors is only 45k. So why would jpeg compression make it 510k? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted February 1, 2009 Alan, bless you again: You're repeating the question I asked to start with. That's the reason for this thread, mon frère. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/75695-what-am-i-doing-wrong-with-tiffs/?do=findComment&comment=796650'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted February 1, 2009 Jamie, Sandy, Alan of Auckland, Ed, micvie, Andy, Alan of Chevy Chase, everyone: Okay. I haven't tried your suggestions yet, but I wasn't using "Save for Web." I've just converted to JPG under "Save As...." But doesn't the back end of my question still protrude: If I start from RWL, DNG, PSD or JPG files in Photoshop, everything works as expected. But when I follow the same procedure from a C1 TIFF, I get crap. What's different about TIFF? Just by way of experiment, I opened a RWL file I have in the latest version of C1, saved as a tif at 25% size (1.2MB size), then opened the tif in Aperture, and exported as 1/4 size JPEG with quality 8. I ended up with a 12k file. Sorry I don't have Photoshop, but in my scenario, everything seems to work the way you'd expect. Sandy, are those size options ("saved as a tif at 25% size," "exported as 1/4 size") offered by Aperture in the save and export options dialogs? I don't think I've got those choices in Photoshop except under the "Save for Web..." menu, which for some reason I've been avoiding in this case. I'm grateful to all of you. I can't imagine so many people trying to help, and even actually taking the time to process a TIFF and see that it does work as it reasonably should. I am now fully convinced that it's either a procedural error from my side or a very strange software glitch between C1 and PS, and most probably the former. I will check this out and let you know the results, but right now I want to offer my amazed thanks to everyone for your efforts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted February 1, 2009 Share #17 Posted February 1, 2009 Sandy, are those size options ("saved as a tif at 25% size," "exported as 1/4 size") offered by Aperture in the save and export options dialogs? Yes, those just reduce number of pixels.... Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted February 1, 2009 You were right. "Save for Web and Other Devices..." in PSCS4 did exactly what I needed. I don't know why I needed to "Save for Web" when working from a TIFF but didn't when working from other originals. And like AlanG, I've got no idea why a 150 x 100 pixel JPG saved at Quality level 2 (and totally useless) would still come in at over 500kb. But you guys have solved the 'problem,' such as it was. And yes, I realize that what you said, but ever so nicely, was "Why don't you use the tool designed for the job?" Again, thanks to everyone. (If you want, I'll make my oversized 150 x 100 pixel JPG available via YouSendIt, just to give you some more giggles. But I won't bother you with that unless you request it.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted February 1, 2009 Share #19 Posted February 1, 2009 Howard, just for the heck of it, yes--send up the TIFF you had trouble with and your 510kb JPEG. I'd like to see what's going on... If you read my post above, I *didn't* use Save for Web, just Save As JPEG (quality 8) to get the resulting 80KB file. So you're doing something weird with the re-size is all. It's got nothing to do with C1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted February 2, 2009 Jamie-- Thanks for the curiosity. Oversize JPG is at https://www.yousendit.com/download/WnBTcXltRSs4Q1IzZUE9PQ. Original TIFF is at https://www.yousendit.com/download/WnBTcXlxa0RRYStGa1E9PQ. Do let me know what you discover. I've got a couple strange behaviors in the user interface in Bridge, but haven't seen peculiarities in PSCS4. And it may be me. I'm absolutely certain I handled all the files the same way, and it was only with the TIFFs, and repeatedly with the TIFFs, trying at different times with different files over the course of a month or more, that I couldn't reduce the size as I could beginning with other originals. Of course, "absolute certainty" dies hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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