Moving to video

[markgay]

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I'm going to shift a lot of my time and effort as a shooter to video (I already spend my working days dealing with television footage).

 

Anyone have experience or hands-on knowledge from a Leica user's perspective of the ergonomics/ practicals of video cameras and their lenses?

 

I'm looking mainly for the views of professionals like Camera Corner: Panasonic AG-HVX-200 P2 Camcorder Review by Bill Southworth- The Digital Journalist"]Bill Southworth or seasoned amateurs rather than gadget/technology fans.

 

I've converted my Dad's 16mm films from the 60s to Digibeta to try to archive them. Now I'm looking for some way of shooting home movies in digital with the same relationship that my M8 has to my M7 - both ergonomically and qualitatively.

 

Regards,

Mark

[Tifoso]

I'm not a shooter but I've worked in TV for 20 years as a director, albeit of live and live-to-tape multi-camera stuff. People that I know seem to really love the Red (link). A good friend also works on a show using this Sony (link) with some pretty spectacular results. See the show, "The First 48" on A&E to see what I mean.

 

Oh, and good luck to you.

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[Guest stnami]

Lose your still camera perspective and log on to a forum where video matters..........

[Realphotos]

Stami whats your point....is your coment a joke and I missed it?

Have you noticed that Still cameras are now including us in the Video world.

Now that progress like it or not. Actually I look forward to using my Leica lenses on my 5DMk2 (while I await the arrival of the R10) in Antartica and that incudes shooting some HD Video with a Senhieser Mic attached. Seems to me this is the right site to talk about Leica...is it not? Oh and you just might be suprised when I lift the occasional Video frame and deliver the perfect (imho) single shot.

[Steve Ash]

I have never enjoyed to look at home-made videos. I was mostly bored to death or felt tortured. I always prefer photography over video.

 

Nevertheless, enjoy whatever you are going to do.

 

Regards

Steve

[rob_x2004]

I look forward to using my Leica lenses on my 5DMk2 (while I await the arrival of the R10)

 

You will have a bit of a serious wait. Look forward though to seeing some of your 5.2 images with Leica lenses.

[bobtodrick]

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Neville, I think tsnami makes a very good point.

I know I wouldn't log on to a video forum and ask what's the best M series Leica to buy.

As much as cameras like the 5DMII and D90 have opened up the photographers options they still fall far short of what a true video camera such as the Canon XL2 or XH A1s is capable of.

If I want a truly informed direction of where to go for video options this (l-camera) would not be my first choice.

[stevelap]

Well, the OP is a Leica user and forum member, and he did say 'from a Leica user's perspective". Given that there are probably forum members out there who shoot both still and video, I don't see anything amiss with posting a query here. Sorry I can't help with video Mark, Red does sound intriguing though, if expensive. In that respect at least, like Leica really:)

 

By the way Neville, did you see the report on The Luminous Landscape site concerning the 5DII in Antartica?........Might be worth a look if you didn't.

 

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[markgay]

Thanks to all for the comments so far - including the fair question about whether I should raise the issue here at all.

 

I've thought long and hard about even broaching video. I, too, have worked in television for 20 years, and it doesn't surprise me to encounter fellow television industry professionals inhabiting still photography sites.. we know what hassle is involved with ingesting, editing and archiving video!

 

Those of us with at least two decades under the belt vaguely remember film. We used to have a unit at the BBC which could move your pictures from film or Umatic to Beta, called the MFU. Multi Fxxx-Up Unit, we called it!

 

Anyone who uses the M8 shouldn't spurn a discussion of video - the issues are precisely what causes greatest hassle to those who take still digital pictures.

 

We could close the door on discussing a technology which allows moving pictures from "still" cameras but let's realise, the key difference is a digital camera takes one frame, while a camera-recorder takes multiple frames. Same technology. Same machine, ultimately.

 

My dad took great cine shots in the early 60s - albeit with a cigarette in one hand and pretty shaky results - but, still, great images. Film still surpasses video - but if we've jumped into the M8, surely we've jumped into video?

 

Part of me considers 16mm or Super 8 but then - how does that fit with using a digital M?

 

And if I commit to a 'still' photography system mainly because of the outstanding quality of the glass - surely I should apply the same "glass comes first" approach to video.

 

That rules out anything but a $10,000 kit with a changeable lens. I'm just fumbling towards a consistent approach, seeking to apply the thought-process of the M8 to video.

 

Sorry if it's a ramble,

 

Regards,

Mark

[stunsworth]

Mark, I hadn't realised that you worked with video/film. The thing that I've found - based on limited use of a consumer video camera - is that video is _much_ more difficult that still photography. There's a need to think and look at things in a different way that I just don't have.

[camboychan]

I work on video daily and still photography is my escape, I never take video at home, It never seems to capture the moment like stills can. That aside developments in video are fast at the moment. The Red and Red Scarlet are exciting but the new sony EX3 tapeless camera is the one that is making the ripples now. With a letus or sg adapter you are able to put prime still lenses on in canon, nikon or olympus flavours. The pictures are stunning and well worth taking a look at. Integration into FCP is seamless.

 

I wish you well in your move to video but suspect you will enjoy stills photography and be surprised how much a single shot can raise the questions and capture the moment in a slice of time so much more so than video ever can.

[elansprint72]

The new version of the Panasonic G1 shoots HD video, might be worth a look. To me most "video cameras" appear weird, the idea of holding a proper-shaped camera to shoot motion pictures: whatever next?

 

Panasonic premieres DMC-GH1 with HD video recording: Digital Photography Review

[markgay]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I’ll be using a small (40 cm) Panasonic HPX-171 camcorder for professional work – with a Leica Dicomar fixed lens just to keep it in the family.

 

Despite the name, it seems to have more in common with the 24mm lens on the D-Lux-4 – its small size means it relies on a high amount of correction through software.

 

The Dicomar zoom starts from 28mm equivalent (at least that’s familiar) but does away with the aperture scale. Something that will feel alien alongside my Leica M lenses.

 

The main point is I want to integrate moving pictures into my photography – not head off down some different road.

 

Ikonoscop claims to be building a cine module that will come in an M variant and there will be other players beyond Red that will accept M’s with adapters. Ikonoscop’s co-founder Daniel Jonsäter says he is designing his digital cine camera along the lines of "what to leave out", in other words, consistent with the Leica M philosophy and avoiding the plague of featuritis.

 

A director friend asks me: ‘what do you want to achieve?’. I think an amateur asks, ‘what’s economically possible or sensible?’.

 

That leads onto the second point, which is that I currently work hard to balance my M photography with the housekeeping side of digital. Video risks tipping the scales in the direction of a computer horror show – unless you actively decide to keep the resolution manageable.

 

An uncompressed DNG cine file as planned by Ikonoscop is as much a nightmare as a blessing. Someone calculated the files would fill one gig in 10 seconds.

 

That gets us into the territory of huge files and 30 inch monitors – and that’s too expensive and time consuming for amateur purposes, because you'd literally need a film crew to help you.

 

Pete, the Lumix GH1 would allow some fun with M lenses. However, Ken Rockwell (whatever people think he writes with authority on moving and still cameras) is devastating on the DSLRs as video cameras. He says most functions don't work during video recording - including the finders.

 

I don’t think still-video convergence will come from the D90 or Canon EOS 5-ii despite the current hoopla from journalists. By the time you attach a live LCD and mike they are bigger than the above said HPX-171 and not much cheaper.

 

So using M lenses or similar depends on someone building a moderate resolution, interchangeable lens digital cine camera. The industry seems headed in the opposite direction - chasing the holy grail of mega HD uncompressed Raw, with only Hollywood in mind.

 

Regards,

Mark

[pgk]

An uncompressed DNG cine file as planned by Ikonoscop is as much a nightmare as a blessing. Someone calculated the files would fill one gig in 10 seconds.

I've been producing time lapse sequences with a 5DMkII and this is bad enough - I'm using 32GB cards - and takes a lot of post processing to deal with. Results are impressive though.