martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Share #1 Posted January 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got my M8 two days ago and have to say it's a wonderful camera. However I think that the JPEG's suck. I usually shoot RAW but shot JPEG these two days because I currently only a have small 1GB SD card. In high contrast situations there's some really horrible sharpening artefacts/halos. I shot this picture with sharpening set to low and contrast set to standard. Color space was ECI RGB and converted to sRGB on these samples. Have you had the same results? have you seen anything like it when shooting RAW? Is there a solution? If this is the way it is, I really think Leica should do something about it, because it isn't acceptable. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13401-m8-high-contrast-sharpening-issues-with-jpeg/?do=findComment&comment=141264'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Hi martinb, Take a look here M8 high contrast sharpening issues with JPEG. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted January 13, 2007 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2007 You'll probably tell me your Canon whatever will handle this but you're way outside the DR with a shot like this. How about winding down the exposure and brightening the foreground with fill flash? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micha67 Posted January 13, 2007 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2007 I got my M8 two days ago and have to say it's a wonderful camera. However I think that the JPEG's suck. I usually shoot RAW but shot JPEG these two days because I currently only a have small 1GB SD card. In high contrast situations there's some really horrible sharpening artefacts/halos. I shot this picture with sharpening set to low and contrast set to standard. Color space was ECI RGB and converted to sRGB on these samples.Have you had the same results? have you seen anything like it when shooting RAW? Is there a solution? If this is the way it is, I really think Leica should do something about it, because it isn't acceptable. I can see color artifacts at the border between heavily blown-out highlights and dark structures. Leicas lack of a lowpass filter and your lack of correct exposure combine to form this unwanted result. I have to agree with the earlier comment that this situation is ways above the capabilities and dynamic range of any analog or digital image sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted January 13, 2007 This isn't about DR or lack of correct exposure. There isn't a correct exposure for situations like the one I attached. Either you blow out the window or underexpose the room or do something in between. I have never seen artefacts like these in any camera I've used before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted January 13, 2007 BTW. This is just one sample. I've seen this phenomenom in much less extreme situations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 13, 2007 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2007 Of course it's about exposure. Your windows are over-exposed, your pots are underexposed and your image exceeds the DR of the camera, something like 9 stops. To say "JPEGs suck" is hardly an objective assessment of the camera. With images like this, you need to use DNG and see what you can do with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted January 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mark, I've had Canon 1D, 1Ds, 10D, Olympus E-1, Fuji S3 Pro, Nikon D2H and some compact digital cameras and I've never seen anything like these artefacts, and I don't like it. I agree, it's a very extreme situation, but I've seen it in far less extreme situations as I said earlier. And as I also said earlier my complaints aren't about the DR. I know that things will blow the hell out, but I don't want these artefacts and I've never seen anything like them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradreiman Posted January 13, 2007 Share #8 Posted January 13, 2007 it looks to me like the camera handled an impossible situation rather admirably....b Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted January 13, 2007 Share #9 Posted January 13, 2007 Martin, if you must shoot jpg, try switching off sharpening completely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted January 13, 2007 it looks to me like the camera handled an impossible situation rather admirably....b Sorry, it didnt! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted January 13, 2007 Share #11 Posted January 13, 2007 Aim the camera directly at the sun and make an eight-second exposure at full aperture; then soak the entire camera in hot oil. That should fix the problem. Seriously though, under these conditions, your shots would be horrible with any camera and you'd simply get different "unacceptable" artifacts. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted January 13, 2007 So people have never blown out a window or anything like it? are you kidding me or what? I can't understand why you can't admit this is a problem. Aim the camera directly at the sun and make an eight-second exposure at full aperture; then soak the entire camera in hot oil. That should fix the problem. Seriously though, under these conditions, your shots would be horrible with any camera and you'd simply get different "unacceptable" artifacts. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradreiman Posted January 13, 2007 Share #13 Posted January 13, 2007 BTW. This is just one sample. I've seen this phenomenom in much less extreme situations. ok then-cough up an example Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted January 13, 2007 This for sure is a lot less extreme. It's only a small crop but almost the whole roof shows the same artefacting. Untouched file. Sharpening low, B&W mode, contrast standard, ECI RGB. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13401-m8-high-contrast-sharpening-issues-with-jpeg/?do=findComment&comment=141366'>More sharing options...
spersky Posted January 13, 2007 Share #15 Posted January 13, 2007 Hello, The roof problem is caused by aliasing which is common in many Leica M8 shots I have seen becuase of the lack of a decent AA filter on the sensor. The aliasing would be present in most shots with any linear or uniform subject. I even noticed on trees Secondly, here is a sample of a shot I took in a stream with an extreme amount of contrast with the 1dsM2. Even that camera had a little trouble with the extreme dynamic range (at extreme magnification I noticed minor artifacts). However, I have never experienced those issue however with a backlit window. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13401-m8-high-contrast-sharpening-issues-with-jpeg/?do=findComment&comment=141373'>More sharing options...
bsmith Posted January 13, 2007 Share #16 Posted January 13, 2007 I agree with Martin, I've been surprised nobody has mentioned this before. (i just assumed everyone was shooting raws) The jpg fines on the M8 are poor compared to Canons of Nikons. Take a simple (perfectly exposed shot) shot of a fury stuffed animal in raw + jpg...compare then shoot the same on a slr Nikon or Canon. The shadow areas in the (fake) fur will have extreme jpg artifacts on the M8. On the Canon (1D) it will be very close to the quality of the raw. The M8 jpgs are just not very good. Maybe the compression is higher. I have seen this since my first M8 and just stopped shooting jpgs. Haven't tried jpgs with my 1.09 M8 , but assume it's the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 13, 2007 Share #17 Posted January 13, 2007 Martin: What lenses are you using? Your problems are also on white/blck boundries, where there can be some CA too is not using a APO lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted January 13, 2007 Thanks for the support William! Rob, I used Summicron-M 35mm ASPH (not coded) for these shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted January 13, 2007 Share #19 Posted January 13, 2007 Wow, Everyone is being very hard on Martin. The fringing and aliasing noted is concerning. It is possible that the camera could do a better job with a possible jpeg software tweek. When a photograph is perfect it is always the brilliant design of the Leica M8. If a photograph shows some problems or technical issues, it is always the problem of the photographer, and never a flaw with the M8. I do agree that the Dynamic range in that scene is very strong, and there are a few ways to get that shot. However, the camera did show some problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted January 13, 2007 Thanks Stephen! I agree that I could have got around the problems by shooting RAW, but now I tested the JPEG perfomance, and I'm glad that someone agree's that there's a serious problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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