Leicaiste Posted September 23, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have found that when you choose a lens in the Lens Detection manual mode and then switch to one of the User Profile in which you have set the Lens Detection mode on Auto, the camera will see your lens as uncoded again. For the time being, I will dedicate one of the User Profile to my uncoded lens. I will gladly see the Exp. bracketing position in the SET menu replaced by the Lens Detection choice and vice versa in the next firmware. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Hi Leicaiste, Take a look here Lens Detection and User Profile incompatibility. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
danyves Posted September 23, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 23, 2009 Make a new profile for Uncoded lens, in which you change ISO or Auto Iso according to circoumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 23, 2009 Yes to me that is the way it is supposed to be. The user profiles change all options in both the normal "Menu" menus and in the SET menu. So if you have a user profile set to "Lens Detection" "ON" (or Auto, not sure of the options available) no matter what changes you have made in any of the menus when you select that user profile is will always change those settings. I'm not sure but I don't think you can set the user profiles to select a actual manually selected lens. So even if you have a user profile set to Manual Entry (or whatever it is) you are going to need to manually select the lens after you select that user profile. I find it best to set all option the way I want then save that as user profile one. Then go in and make changes to certain items and then save that as another user profile. That way I know that if I need to get back to basics I just select user profile one and I'm at my starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm not sure but I don't think you can set the user profiles to select a actual manually selected lens. So even if you have a user profile set to Manual Entry (or whatever it is) you are going to need to manually select the lens after you select that user profile. No, a User Profile with a lens manually selected will show that lens again when you come back to it, even when you put another coded lens on the camera. You have to be very careful when you set up a profile. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted September 24, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 24, 2009 Ah, so lense is coded in the User profile. Make thing either more difficult or somewhat awkward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted September 24, 2009 Ah, so lense is coded in the User profile. Make thing either more difficult or somewhat awkward. Yes, but you can also use the 4 User Profiles for four different uncoded lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted September 24, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, did forgot Leica did add a fourth User Profile, maybe for that reason. More easy to change ISO or Auto ISO settings in such uncoded profiles than the lens settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 24, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 24, 2009 Yes, but you can also use the 4 User Profiles for four different uncoded lenses. So you can use UP 0 (zero) on the M9? On the M8 that was locked and only used to return the camera As Shipped From Factory settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted September 24, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 24, 2009 Please consider the following scenario: Let's assume that most of my lenses are coded and that I have set up some profiles like "Sunny" or "Low Light", all of them with lens detection on, as this is my default. If I now mount one of my uncoded lenses I hopefully remember to switch the camera from automatic lens detection to the appropriate manual setting. I then start shooting and all is well. Well, until I need to switch to a different profile, say from "Sunny" to "Low Light" because I went inside. If I understand the explanations in this thread correctly, my camera switches back to automatic lens detection as a result of that profile switch. Correct? If yes, it will be a problem for me and I won't be able to use profiles like I do with my M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 25, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 25, 2009 You are kidding correct. You are a adult of a age that your memory is fully developed and you can't remember to check the lens detection feature when switching user profiles. Ok so don't use any user profiles and make all changes one by one. I don't think Leica will care, that's why they put all those options in the menus. Sorry if you think I have a attitude but this is just a little childish. I'm taking my bat and ball and going home. Please consider the following scenario: Let's assume that most of my lenses are coded and that I have set up some profiles like "Sunny" or "Low Light", all of them with lens detection on, as this is my default. If I now mount one of my uncoded lenses I hopefully remember to switch the camera from automatic lens detection to the appropriate manual setting. I then start shooting and all is well. Well, until I need to switch to a different profile, say from "Sunny" to "Low Light" because I went inside. If I understand the explanations in this thread correctly, my camera switches back to automatic lens detection as a result of that profile switch. Correct? If yes, it will be a problem for me and I won't be able to use profiles like I do with my M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 25, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 25, 2009 Sorry shootist, but I think you are not reading Roey as he intended. I too see a problem with what he described. So far I have been changing everything manually, from coded to uncoded, as it occurs. But until the 'habit' of remembering to make a change in menu with a change of circumstance becomes automatic, it is problematic. Work pressure, distraction, all contribute to mistakes in technique. The less we need to fiddle with gear the better. Notwithstanding all that, we must remember the Leica is a manual camera, so "practice your skills and reflexes" is the mantra. I think I need to go practice more with these new combos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 25, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 25, 2009 Just did some quick fiddling, in between phone calls. I reckon the best way to use 'profiles' is to set up alternatives for only one variable. In my case, coded and non-coded lenses. As soon as you profile for more than one variable, you are laying yourself prone to 'user error' mistakes. I have three uncoded lenses so will have profiles for each. I still see a problem with using profiles now. When I select (in my case) a different uncoded lens, I still have to manually select both the lens profile AND the iso that I choose to work with. This is still manually selecting both variables. In this scenario I think it is more intuitive to just do it ALL manually and not be expecting any quick selectivity. Have I missed something? (quite probably ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 25, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 25, 2009 No erl I understand his post completely. Leica gave users the feature they asked for since the M8 came out, manual lens selection, and now users are complaining about how it works. This is why Leica was hesitent to include this feature. It similar to changing film in your camera and forgetting to change the ISO/ASA/DIN setting on your camera that has a built in light meter or on your hand held light meter. Who's fault is that? I guess if it's on the camera with a light meter it's the camera makers fault for including a light meter. Or buy a M7. The simple solution is to code, in any way you can, your lenses and don't use the manual feature. Or remember to check it when you change a lens or a user profile. Would it be nice if the manual setting automatically switch to Auto when you attached a coded lens? Sure it would and that will be on the M10. Now we will have people saying, "I'm not buying a Leica digtal M until this happens". Sorry shootist, but I think you are not reading Roey as he intended. I too see a problem with what he described. So far I have been changing everything manually, from coded to uncoded, as it occurs. But until the 'habit' of remembering to make a change in menu with a change of circumstance becomes automatic, it is problematic. Work pressure, distraction, all contribute to mistakes in technique. The less we need to fiddle with gear the better. Notwithstanding all that, we must remember the Leica is a manual camera, so "practice your skills and reflexes" is the mantra. I think I need to go practice more with these new combos. Just did some quick fiddling, in between phone calls. I reckon the best way to use 'profiles' is to set up alternatives for only one variable. In my case, coded and non-coded lenses. As soon as you profile for more than one variable, you are laying yourself prone to 'user error' mistakes. I have three uncoded lenses so will have profiles for each. I still see a problem with using profiles now. When I select (in my case) a different uncoded lens, I still have to manually select both the lens profile AND the iso that I choose to work with. This is still manually selecting both variables. In this scenario I think it is more intuitive to just do it ALL manually and not be expecting any quick selectivity. Have I missed something? (quite probably ) No I don't think you are missing anything. The Leica M is a manual camera. I set one profile for my base DNG settings and another for just JPG (Yes some times I need to shoot just JPG's) and the third to DNG+JPG B&W. Then I do everything manually. ISO, WB, +/- EV. Then if I need to during shooting or at the start of the day I go into the set menu and select my base user profile. If I've been shooting just JPG's or DNG+JPG B&W when I'm done I set it back the base settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted September 25, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 25, 2009 You are kidding correct. You are a adult of a age that your memory is fully developed and you can't remember to check the lens detection feature when switching user profiles. I kid you not, I also occasionally forget to remove the lens cap before I shoot I reckon the best way to use 'profiles' is to set up alternatives for only one variable. In my case, coded and non-coded lenses. As soon as you profile for more than one variable, you are laying yourself prone to 'user error' mistakes. The problem is that a profile actually does change all variables. In general I like it when things are kept simple and predictable, but in this case it would be my preference if lens detection settings were not part of a profile. I expect I will change the lens detection settings when I mount a lens and don't touch it until I mount a different one. The way I prefer to use profiles requires me to switch between them more frequently. Others might use them in a different manner (e.g. as you suggested: one per uncoded lens), and for those it will not be a problem. The simple solution is to code, in any way you can, your lenses and don't use the manual feature. Or remember to check it when you change a lens or a user profile. True I set one profile for my base DNG settings and another for just JPG (Yes some times I need to shoot just JPG's) and the third to DNG+JPG B&W.Then I do everything manually. ISO, WB, +/- EV. Then if I need to during shooting or at the start of the day I go into the set menu and select my base user profile. If I've been shooting just JPG's or DNG+JPG B&W when I'm done I set it back the base settings. I am glad it works for you As I said, people use tools differently. If I am the only one who doesn't like the way it works I will shut up and enjoy the M9 (if it ever arrives ) as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 25, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 25, 2009 Just been out to shoot in the rain and try some real world changes. Gradually, I am coming to the conclusion that for me, 'profiling' for uncoded lenses is the go and remembering to always set iso manually, as that is now easy and quick on the M9. I think Leica meant the profiles to be used basically for exposure convenience. Using profiles as I am at present may prove to be a mistake. I suspect I will ultimately revert to ALL manual adjustments. That way there is no doubt that I must be responsible. Be interesting to see if other smarter users have some good ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted September 25, 2009 No erl I understand his post completely.Leica gave users the feature they asked for since the M8 came out, manual lens selection, and now users are complaining about how it works. This is why Leica was hesitent to include this feature.". Still, I really would like to see the Exp. bracketing position in the SET menu replaced by the Lens Detection choice and vice versa in the next firmware. Like every M user, I am switching lenses much more often than I bracket. By the way, I never bracket on an M camera. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted September 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 25, 2009 I do confirm erl post(s), that ISO seems to be the variable now with uncoded lenses profiles for the M9. This is the easily adjustable variable if set with ISO button A bit more complex if one stick with AUTO ISO, but still preferable to switch between manual and Auto for lenses. Practice will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted September 25, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 25, 2009 I think there are two issues here: 1. how the user profiles work 2. how the lens selection works. User Profiles The user profiles saves EVERYTHING in the menus - I'm certain this is the right way to go. This has the advantage that if you have, for instance, one uncoded lens (lets say it's a 21 elmarit) then you can make up a user profile for this lens, and change to it accordingly. Nikon cameras have profiles that save some things and not others, and I never never could get to grips with them. I'm certain Leica are right about this. Lens Selection I think there is an argument that this should reset if you put a coded lens on, or, better still there should be a menu option saying: Reset lens selection to Auto when coded lens is attached Y/N Perhaps that will come in a firmware update - I don't know, but it would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 25, 2009 Jono, I'm still struggling with this. I have three un coded lenses and I have (temporarily) made a profile foer each. Problem is because the profile saves everything, as you say, the next I want to use 'that' lens I may be working (or wish to work) at a different ISO. Therein lies my pitfall if I don't remember to change that at the same time. Hence my inclination to revert to all manual. Then at least I know I have to do it myself. You suggestion about the lens selection firmware upgrade is a good one. That will go a long way to improve forgetful memories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted September 25, 2009 I think there are two issues here: 1. how the user profiles work 2. how the lens selection works. I think that there is a third issue: where the Lens Detection function is located. Now that the option of setting manually the lens is offered it will become really important for those with uncoded lens. They will use it each time they change lens. Sometimes more often than they are changing ISO or white balance. Maybe Leica should let the user create/customize the SET menu, like on any mobilephone. People with all their lenses coded will let that option in the main menu, and the other will move to the SET menu. Another option that I use very often and that is well hided in the main menu is Format SD card. I use it each time I put the card back in the camera. If I could customize the SET menu I will also move it there. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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