Micro 4/3 an alternative to digital M? (Merged)

[stnami]

Love to see your images sdai............. please feel free to post them in the photo forum ...................... those Nikon images of yours .....
Olympus and Panasonic are presenting a camera that a lot of people have been wanting and that is the important part

[stnami]

Hmmm, I'm not so sure, Andy ... the one I was in was running in peace (with only 3 replies

and then you started referring to the whole efforts by OLy and Pana as a load of crap, yea the M8 forum looks good for you

[Riley]

Originally Posted by SJP

Riley the suggestion of 12.5 mm f/0.25 was hardly intended as a serious option so lighten up. We come here to have fun.

I agree that a serious compact would be interesting, see my posting here.

im fine about it, but F.25 isnt possible
fastest lens ever made is F.7

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by sdai

It wasn't my fault ... I am here only because Andy merged the thread in M8 forum into this one.

I thought that I heard your fingernails scraping the drain pipe walls, as you came down here..
I do have a correction to the marketing stuff I gave above. I just read something else that put it differently. Of all the digital cameras sold only 7% are cameras with interchangeable lenses (probably put that way to pick up the M8). Of the people asked (out of the other 93%) if they would move up to a DSLR, most said that DSLRs were too big, too heavy and too complicated. Hey, if my kids are any indication, even the P&S digitals are to complicated. They've both moved into new homes and don't know how to send us a web picture.... They aren't the ones that answered the surveys for sure. The bottom line is that there are customers out there that would move up, if there was a product and that is what this micro4/3rds is all about for Oly, Pany and even Leica.....cute, small, light and affordable are that sector's values.....while our's are IQ, DR, Noise & High ISOs.
Bob

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by ho_co

As well as on the sensor design, à la M8.

As Rubén said in the LuLa M8 article he mentions in post #13, the importance of telecentricity was originally overestimated.

Hi Howard,

Maybe...but Leica had serious concerns about it and it is a factor with the R-D1. Indeed, though, changes in sensor/microlens design can mitigate this.

Cheers,

Sean

[mampito]

Originally Posted by Riley

something that relates to the facts

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Riley, very interesting link!
If you scroll down that page, it shows a comparison between a 4/3 lens and supposedly a m4/3 lens on the left. To me, the design on the left looks very Leica-like :-)))
Or am I hallucinating?
lens comparison

I find this very interesting.

All the best
Martin

[veraikon]

the design on the left looks very Leica-like :-)))

Red dots are very common in these days . Remember the new VC 2.0/28 has also one.

[mampito]

Originally Posted by veraikon

Red dots are very common in these days . Remember the new VC 2.0/28 has also one.

I did not mean the red dot, but the overall look.
No curvature, straight lines etc.
I know it is just a mockup... let's wait for photokina 08.

Martin

[Riley]

make no mistake, physical cameras are out there and people are beginning to talk
heres what one says

Pros:

1. Much smaller and lighter lenses.
2. Smaller bodies.
3. Quieter (no mirror slap).
4. Electronic viewfinder (state of the art EVF, flexible dynamic information overlay, exposure and white balance real-time preview, magnified critical focus, alignment grids, face detection, focus tracking, versatile AF point selection across entire frame, big view, bright view, clear view - all info off, etc.)
5. Backwards compatible with Four Thirds lenses via spacer adapter. Full exposure funcionality. AF function retained - though AF will be slower with many Four Thirds lenses.
6. Compatible with Four Thirds flash system.
7. Potential for implementation of high quality digital video recording function.

Cons:

1. Electronic finder, despite versatility not everyone's cup of tea.
2. Bodies and lenses too small for some?
3. No compatibility for Micro FT lenses with standard Four Thirds bodies.
4. Slower contrast detect AF compared to phase detect AF on DSLRs.
5. AF less usable in low light without AF illuminator.
6. Electronic finder performance and clarity drops as brightness of scene lessens.

[FastFashnReloaded]

Originally Posted by Riley

make no mistake, physical cameras are out there and people are beginning to talk
heres what one says

Pros:

1. Much smaller and lighter lenses.
2. Smaller bodies.
...

Cons:

1. Electronic finder, despite versatility not everyone's cup of tea.
2. Bodies and lenses too small for some?
...

As Scotty would say, "The right tools for the right job!"

One machine that does everything well does not exist. Sometimes you want a $30,000 medium format camera, and sometimes an Oly E-420. Sometimes a Ducati, sometimes a BMW GS. Some people, like S___ or L__ think that "the system is dead" because they can't get it thru their heads that not every job calls for a Leica R9 or a Generic Canikon. Sometimes you don't want to do studio work, you want to capture the protest at the Republican Con-Vention without the Solomon Grundies noticing you. A small, black, interchangeable lens (cheap in case Grundies smash) camera is called for. One with high quality lenses, good jpeg quality, and stealthiness is in order. The Republi-cons get SO upset when you catch fearless Leader ShrubCheney doing and saying stupid things.

Leica abandoned the true reportage market because while the M series might be of a nice size, I couldn't risk Grundy smash with a 5,000 dollar body and lenses that are half that price or more for each focal length.

More power to Oly-PanaLeica if they can make something that focuses faster than a DP-1 and has a great kewlness factor about it (and does not break the bank).

Over to you a__hat Sdai.

[Bob Ross]

Tracking Face Detection may seem like a gimic, but if it works, it couuld be a good PJ tool for where people gather to do " *ventional" things. It actually does work on my little FX500 and I'd expect better performance with more processing power behind it.
Bob

[SJP]

im fine about it, but F.25 isnt possible fastest lens ever made is F.7

Not true, microscope objectives run to NA 0.8 (air) or 1.2 (oil-immersion) which boils down to about f/0.4 admittedly you need to pay about 5000 euro, they have up to 15 elements and the front lens is only about 3 mm diameter.

[rosuna]

You can use an optical viewfinder with a Micro 4/3 camera and a fixed focal length, so an electronic viewfinder is not mandatory.

I would like to see a good manual focus system, with a simple scale of distances easy to check. We are thinking on contrast autofocus, but a good solution for manual focus is very important, faster and maybe more convenient (for many).

[stnami]

I would like to see a good manual focus system, with a simple scale of distances easy to check. We are thinking on contrast autofocus, but a good solution for manual focus is very important, faster and maybe more convenient (for many).

... ain't gonna happen you are not the targeted consumer ........... save the bandwidth. It's all about point, shoot , show and delete products or for the hardy a free photoframe

[lct]

Originally Posted by rosuna

You can use an optical viewfinder with a Micro 4/3 camera and a fixed focal length, so an electronic viewfinder is not mandatory...

Sure, one can use a sport finder as well or chimp like everybody.

[rosuna]

Originally Posted by stnami

... ain't gonna happen you are not the targeted consumer ........... save the bandwidth. It's all about point, shoot , show and delete products or for the hardy a free photoframe

Well, I disagree. The Panasonic LX3 has an optical viewfinder for 24mm angle of view. The Sigma Dp1 also has an optical viewfinder, and convenient manual focus... It is not so difficult to implement, for fixed focal lenses...

[FastFashnReloaded]

Originally Posted by rosuna

Well, I disagree. The Panasonic LX3 has an optical viewfinder for 24mm angle of view. The Sigma Dp1 also has an optical viewfinder, and convenient manual focus... It is not so difficult to implement, for fixed focal lenses...

It isn't hard to implement a zooming finder for rangefinders either. Contax did it with the G1 and G2 in the 1990s - 28mm to 90mm continuous zoom. Leica should have done it also.

[stnami]

Is there any need ........... a new consumer model will be out next year witha whole bunch of new teasers, wasted effort and expense doing more than the consumer asks or is told that he/ehe needs

[dugby]

As i currently have a D1, D2 and L1 , I would really like my next Leica to be like.....

(I make no apologies for the cut-n-past)