M7 viewfinder flare - significant

[Rolo]

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I know little about the viewfinder flare problem that was evident in M7 cameras produced a few years ago. Is it only a minor problem, or is it a problem to be avoided at all costs?

 

For background: I have the immediate opportunity to buy an M7 at a price which will allow me to sell it on next year without huge loss if I buy an M8.

 

It will be used alongside my new MP for wedding photography and provide auto exposure mode when I'm most under pressure. I currently use an M3 as a second camera, but I find it very difficult to manage in quickly changing light conditions and I'm hoping that the M7 will help in those situations and allow more time for critical focus.

 

Any experienced readers advise ?

[Lucklik]

The viewfinders of the first M7 were the same as the viewfinders on the M6 (TTL)

Later production the viewfinder of the M7 and the MP are the same.

 

Regards

 

Luc

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[lambroving]

The viewfinders of the first M7 were the same as the viewfinders on the M6 (TTL)

Later production the viewfinder of the M7 and the MP are the same.

 

Regards

 

Luc

 

 

Wrong! Sorry... The M7's have coated windows and a few other improvements. They are NOT an M6ttl. Even a "converted" M7 is not quite the same as an MP however; all the parts won't fit. Unfortunately some flare worse than others, so Rolo won't know until he gets the camera.I have late M7 prior to the "fix" (2855xxx) which has never been a problem, and I own an MP .58 which has the best v/f of any Leica I've ever used. The safe "fix" serial number is (2885xxx) BTW.

[Guest leica_mage]

[...] It will be used alongside my new MP for wedding photography and provide auto exposure mode when I'm most under pressure.

Are you certain you'll be able to remember that the shutter speed dials rotate in opposite directions when most under pressure? Just a consideration.

 

Best,

[lambroving]

K.P.,

 

Most users of M7's do not use the shutter speed dial to adjust exposure. They use the exposure lock feature to make exposure compensation because it's quicker than turning the dial and the chosen speed appears in the viewfinder. Definitely when working quickly, the AE rules. The M7 is a serious "working" camera. In my case, I find it a lot less fussy to shoot than my MP and my exposures are generally more accurate, (even though they both have the same meter), probably due to the infinitely variable electronically-controlled shutter.

[stunsworth]

I guess if you keep the M7 in AE mode there won't be an issue, but personally I'd prefer two cameras with similar dials.

[Rolo]

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My understanding is that the shutter speed dial doesn't rotate anywhere on the M7 ?

 

Am I wrong ?

 

I'll Super Glue it in the Auto position and put a block on apertures beyond f4.

 

Why else would I want an M7 along side an MP/M3 if not for auto exposure ? Does anybody use it primarily on auto ? Tell me it's worthwhile as a point, focus and shoot, please.

 

I could have a another lens with the cash, or keep the M8 within my financial reach.

[lambroving]

Rolo,

 

If you want to use it as a P&S, you can. BUT..., I'm not suggesting that you disengage your brain when you use it. When I recently used mine, I adjusted the shutter speed dial only for taking a series of shots with exposure compensation. That was less than 10% of my shooting.

 

Hopefully someone else with an M7 will post on this thread.

[Guest leica_mage]

K.P.,

 

Most users of M7's do not use the shutter speed dial to adjust exposure. They use the exposure lock feature to make exposure compensation because it's quicker than turning the dial and the chosen speed appears in the viewfinder. [...]

Correct, I stand corrected - I'm just so manually oriented I frgot why Rolo wanted the M7 to begin with!

 

The M7 is a serious "working" camera. In my case' date=' I find it a lot less fussy to shoot than my MP and my exposures are generally more accurate, (even though they both have the same meter), probably due to the infinitely variable electronically-controlled shutter.[/quote']

Aaaargh! Don't get me salivating, I'm actually eyeing an MP as a companion to my M6 now. The M7's only temptation for me lies in precisely the super-accurate shutter. That's why I loved my F3 in my SLR days, despite being a mechanical-camera diehard - but I always set shutter speeds manually; the AP auto option was there as a comfort that if something dramatic happened, I wouldn't miss it.

 

But three things really put me off in the M7: (i) and foremost, that infernal blinking light when one sets the ISO manually. I don't push and pull a lot, but I always pull both with Delta 3200 and XP2 Super, and I just know that thing would drive me bonkers ; (ii) the larger body height (believe it or not to me that's a step back from utter elegance - especially when the comparison is constant and (iii) the differently rotating shutter dial, given the fact that, as I said before, I'd be using the M7 manually 97 per cent of the time.

 

Best,

[andybarton]

Do people look at the speed adjustment wheel when adjusting it or try to adjust with the camera still at the eye?

 

If the former, I suspect that direction of travel is not so much of an issue.

 

When using a real M, i.e. one without a meter, adjusting the speed or aperture with the camera to the eye is pretty pointless unless you can remember at what settings you have left it.

[Guest leica_mage]

[...] When using a real M, i.e. one without a meter [...]

Time for me to ditch me fake M(6)!

 

Actually, on a serious note, few things are as gratifying to me as removing the battery and using my brain - but I like the meter to be there. Just so I know I can use it if I'm lazy.

 

Then again, nothing beats a good hand-held spot meter for critical exposures...

[lambroving]

K.P.,

 

If you don't use the intuitive features of the M7 and fight it, there is no point in owning one. You will do better with an MP. I like to know what the light is doing and what shutter speed I'm using without removing the v/f from my eye. Both my M5 & M7 do this. Actually my M5 would suit you best..., but you'd hate the size. I judge Leicas based on the way they work for me as tools. The "love object" thing is secondary...

[Rolo]

"Then again, nothing beats a good hand-held spot meter for critical exposures..."

 

K.P. Never a truer word and when I stand in the middle of Glencoe with my 5x4 I use my Pentax digital spot meter every time. But weddings are different..... and a fascinating test of man and kit.

 

I HAVE to get 450 useful image in a 4 hour period with 150 that are different and worth printing and 30/40 that are stunning at 12x8. Exposure is damn important, but not as critical as focus and speed of operation to capture a smile that bursts into a laugh. Focus is vital and a photo without it is useless. It also takes time to focus at f1.4/f2.8 and I don't want that time to be absorbed by taking a light reading and setting the M3 up. Because the viewfinder is clear, you can overlook focus and I have on many occasions.

 

In a minute or two, one can be by a window shooting a back lit bridal veil, turn to shoot laughing bridesmaids in a dimly lit bedroom and then chasing a reflected portrait in a bathroom mirror. A change of lens/camera in the middle of that, or a film re-load, builds anxiety. Realising that a meter reading wasn't taken between the shots is agony.

 

The whole day isn't that dramatic, but your on your toes. I have been considering a auto everything digital, but don't want to sacrifice the pretty unique characteristics of the Leica images. Hence the M7.

[Guest leica_mage]

Rolo, thanks for a beautiful post. I have always said that wedding photography must be the ultimate test of photographer and equipment, and break out into a cold sweat even just thinking about it (no, I have never done a wedding!). So I appreciate your choice greatly.

 

I don't know how a wedding photographer I have the greatest admiration for (Jeff Ascough) has managed to pull it off with his three M6 TTLs until recently (he went the digital way because he couldn't find labs that would print his work the way he wanted it without charging insane prices).

 

You are a courageous man.

 

Best,

[wizard]

But three things really put me off in the M7: (i) and foremost, that infernal blinking light when one sets the ISO manually. I don't push and pull a lot, but I always pull both with Delta 3200 and XP2 Super, and I just know that thing would drive me bonkers ;

 

K.P.,

 

why should there be a blinking light in the viewfinder of an M7 if one sets the ISO manually?? There is not! The red dot just blinks if the camera does not read the DX-code correctly, EVEN if the ISO is set manually. But if ISO was read correctly, no blinking dot.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Guest leica_mage]

K.P.,

 

why should there be a blinking light in the viewfinder of an M7 if one sets the ISO manually?? There is not! The red dot just blinks if the camera does not read the DX-code correctly, EVEN if the ISO is set manually. But if ISO was read correctly, no blinking dot.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Andy, if I pull my Delta 3200 to 1600, as I do, the M7 blinks because the information I set manually conflicts with its reading of the DX code on the canister, which "tells" it 3600...

 

Best,

[harmsr]

Rolo,

 

The M7 is great for fast exposures. The AE really does work well with exposure lock and then recompose. In the AE mode you can see the exact shutter speed it will use in the VF. When using the AE, it is much faster than my MP.

 

I sold my M7 because I wanted my last film camera to be the MP3. However, my next camera will be the M8 so that I now have a nice size digital that uses my M glass and has the useful AE function.

 

For your quick wedding shots, I think the M7 is a much better choice over the MP. Your other choice would be to go for the M8 if you want to go digital.

 

Ray