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Well I've wondered about this for some time; putting together a book of some of the superb images we see here day in day out. I've often wondered if there's a yearbook or something.

I think we're agreed that the equipment doesn't have to be exclusively Leica to produce great pictures, but I do see that there has to be a common denominator for practical purposes. Unfortunately we do then fall rather into Leica Trap of highlighting the equipment above the vision of the photographers here...

But I'm certainly interested and may participate in a spot of group vanity publishing

but wonder how one gets a copy of the book?

Will the book be priced at Leica prices?

Would there be a way of paying for a book at the time of sending in our cash?

PayPal?

Jim.

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Great idea, Bill, I'm in too and I agree with the all-Leica equipment rule in this instance, although it will have to be largely an honesty system.

 

No problem, given the people here who can tell at a glance whether a Leica lens was used.

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I was heavily involved for several years in the Family of Man 2 project run on the LUG. I was both a contributor and an editor. You can find some details here...

 

The Family of Man 2 Project | Book Preview

 

and an overview outside of Blurb here...

 

Leica FAQ - Family of Man 2

 

The project was started by Alastair Firkin who is also a member here and involved hundreds of photographers and ran over a 5 year period.

 

I would be happy to contribute something similar here - for anyone thinking of volunteering to be an editor it isn't easy and takes a lot of time to select the images.

 

However the minute I hear talk of model releases I lose interest in submitting photographs. I don't have a single photograph that has a model release - and I suspect precious few others do either. My understanding is that a model release isn't required for this type of book. If that's the agreed position I'd be prepared to submit some photographs.

 

Putting ensemble the editorial staff is the first task to give a kick to the priject, yours and others availabilty is greatly welcome.

About the issue of model release... I'm not an expert about, but I think that at least for children is someway mandatory, unless the final product is completely made (edited, printed, distributed) within a private group of people and without any external service provided.

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I'm not an expert about, but I think that at least for children is someway mandatory, unless the final product is completely made (edited, printed, distributed) within a private group of people and without any external service provided.

 

If that's the case - and I'm not sure it is - I won't be submitting any photographs - though I'm happy to help in any other capacity.

 

The concept of the family of man 2 book I mentioned above was that they were photographs involving people - very often strangers. No model releases were asked for by Alastair.

 

In regard to how the judging was done, it was a similar process for each of the 5 years it ran. Everyone who wanted submitted a web sized photograph to Alaistair. He then posted them anonymously - originally on CD, later on the web - and each judge picked their top 20 images.

 

The votes were then collated and the top 100 choices for that year made it into the book. When the book was ready to be produced a request was put out for people with selected images to email Alastair with the full sized version. Alastair then put the book together from those submitted images. Where someone didn't submit a full sized image - there were sadly some deaths over the 5 years the project ran - a smaller image was prepared from the originally submitted web image and included.

 

Obviously in this case the project wouldn't run for quite so long <grin>.

Edited by stunsworth
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This model release business could really stifle a project such as this.

 

How is one supposed to get a model release from people in photographs taken 10 years ago? It's just ridiculous.

 

If you are _deliberately_ taking someone's photograph with a view to making money out of them, for a brochure, or catalogue or tourist information leaflet, or something, then I can understand why they might be necessary. But, for normal photography, taken in the street, in public, then it's just ridiculous.

 

Presumably, the French version of "Hello!" magazine have only scenes of cars and cats and sunsets? No paparazzi shots? No shots of people in the street?

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Presumably, the French version of "Hello!" magazine have only scenes of cars and cats and sunsets? No paparazzi shots? No shots of people in the street?

 

Andy, I've no more trouble taking photographs of people in France than I have in the UK - in fact I've had less.

 

The model release issue was the reason why I didn't submit anything to the earlier book. I've never seen anyone 'out on the street', either in the UK or mainland Europe, ask someone for a model release after taking a photograph. The model release requirement would mean a whole genre of photography - the one most commonly associated with Leica in fact - probably being excluded from the new book.

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UK or mainland Europe, ask someone for a model release after taking a photograph. The model release requirement would mean a whole genre of photography - the one most commonly associated with Leica in fact - probably being excluded from the new book.

 

Precisely.

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I'n not a lawyer but my understanding of the law covering taking a picture of a person in public in the UK without a model release is that it is quite legal to do so providing that you don't subsequently publish the picture that deliberately shows the person in a 'bad light' (not 'light' the photographic sense).

 

If the person was recognisable and was shown in a bad light then there would be grounds for suing for damages for defamation of character. I would hope that the law in other countries is similar.

 

Take, for example, where I took a picture of a recognisable person snoozing innocently on a park bench in the warm afternoon sunshine where there happened to be an empty bottle of booze nearby. If I deliberately cropped the photo to make it seem as if the person had passed out after drinking alcohol then I could be sued by the subject for damages but not otherwise.

 

Clearly, through its theme, this book is not setting out to deliberately show anyone in a bad light, which would be a legal defence in itself, so model releases should be superfluous providing that the editors reject a picture that clearly contravenes.

 

Would any member lawyers care to confirm or trash the above please?

 

Pete.

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If that's the case - and I'm not sure it is -

 

It's not. Books (including fine art) are treated as editorial and do not require model releases. There is also no distinction between children and adults as far as the need for model releases goes. What's changed in recent years is that the public's obsession with nonces has made organisations and individuals wary of anything to do with children and model releases are increasingly being demanded as a precaution. Personally, I hate this creeping risk aversion that we are seeing in society and suggest that model releases are not requested as a matter of principle.

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I am in too.

 

Great idea. If this is done well I think you can try to get Leica to sponsor it and try and getting stocked in some outlets, such as stores selling Leica gear. It can certainly be sold over the internet and should be a good way not just to showcase some peoples work here but also to show the quality images Leica enthusiasts can produce.

 

I've noticed on other forums before some criticism of this site as being just obsessed with gear and not photography itself. I know that is not the case and there are some great photographers here, and I think to show some very good quality photos from them would be very good.

 

I'd like to volunteer to help edit the book. Having just finished doing my Cubans book on blurb, (CUBANS | By Nick De Marco | Category: Arts & Photography | Blurb) I'm very interested in book production - from selection of images to lay out etc. Please count me in.

 

My own opinion on selection is this. (1) We should go for quality not quantity. If you look at some books which have obviously tried to cram in as many photos as possible they rarely look as good as those which just showcase the best work. Better to have no more than say 50 or 100 photos than have everyone on the forum happy because we have all had a photo included.

 

(2) I don't think we should be become too gear dogmatic about entries. Surely what is really important is that the photos was taken with Leica glass, what body it is on is really rather secondary. One could take a photo with a Leica M body and CV lens, and a CV body and Leica lens, and vice versa. Which would you say is the Leica photo? I think it must be the one using the Leica glass because th difference in image quality between one taken with a Bessa or Leica M is non exsistant. Beteen a CV lens and Leica lens it is. Anyway, I suggest when you have enough editors they listen to what most people on here want and decide the rules.

 

Nick

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My own opinion on selection is this. (1) We should go for quality not quantity. If you look at some books which have obviously tried to cram in as many photos as possible they rarely look as good as those which just showcase the best work. Better to have no more than say 50 or 100 photos than have everyone on the forum happy because we have all had a photo included.

 

(2) I don't think we should be become too gear dogmatic about entries. Surely what is really important is that the photos was taken with Leica glass, what body it is on is really rather secondary.

 

I agree with the first point. I'd suggest 100 photographs. That's a good sized book, but not unmanageable.

 

Regarding point 2, for this one occasion I'd prefer camera and lens to be Leica, especially if there's going to be an attempt to get Leica themselves involved in some way. Of course there is an element of trust involved, and the decision isn't mine anyway.

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Morning all, just waking up to all the responses received overnight. Great response so far!

 

I haven't read everything in detail yet, but let me just try to hit this model release issue on the head before we go any further.

 

Living as I do in the UK, I have no released shots, nor have I ever used such a form. I do appreciate that privacy laws in other countries vary, and this is an international project.

 

So.

 

My suggestion is this.

 

Model release forms are and remain the responsibility of the contributing photographer. They should be used where required by local law. Their existence or otherwise will not be monitored or administered by the book editors.

 

How's that?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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