28mm F 2.8 ASPH & M8--impressions

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Hey can i throw a 28 f2 in here . i just got this the other day and WOW. Wide open at ISO 160 with a household bulb. Jack just woke up here. LOL

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hi Jamie,

 

Thanks for the great post. Don't forget that one is never testing just the DR of a camera. The effective DR is going to be determined by the M8 and the specific lens. The macro contrast of a lens can have a large affect on DR which, as you know, I've written quite a bit about. It's actually impossible to compare the effective DR of two cameras unless they use the same lens, othewise, it's the DR of a camera/lens system that one is assessing.

 

Glad you love the 28/2.8. I still highly recommend it. Am testing 28s right now for a lens article and it is coming up aces.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

My tests with the DMR and Canon where always with the same leica lens

[gumshoecamus]

jaime's stuff is really interesting and (like andy's, guy's and sean's stuff) very exciting too.

these pushed images remind me of my hassy MF back (CFV) -- it is noiser than canon and a bit intolerant of poor exposure (although hasselblad do a good job of continuously improving that thru firmware updates) but when one pushes shots -- even 2 or 3 stops to iso 1600 or even 3200 (through raw devloper) while the noise and break up is ugly as hell, the tone and detail is still there.

when I was a student I used to wander the streets all night with my pentax k100 shoot film all night. for b/w I favoured tmax + rodinol, and for colour fuji superia (I think) and at 6400 or even 12800 the grain is huge, but the tone is all there. m8 with a few f/ware upgrades, might be about to match that. wonderful news.

dave

[Jamie Roberts]

jaime's stuff is really interesting and (like andy's, guy's and sean's stuff) very exciting too.

these pushed images remind me of my hassy MF back (CFV) -- it is noiser than canon and a bit intolerant of poor exposure (although hasselblad do a good job of continuously improving that thru firmware updates) but when one pushes shots -- even 2 or 3 stops to iso 1600 or even 3200 (through raw devloper) while the noise and break up is ugly as hell, the tone and detail is still there.

when I was a student I used to wander the streets all night with my pentax k100 shoot film all night. for b/w I favoured tmax + rodinol, and for colour fuji superia (I think) and at 6400 or even 12800 the grain is huge, but the tone is all there. m8 with a few f/ware upgrades, might be about to match that. wonderful news.

dave

 

Dave--the strange thing for me is that the file doesn't break up until you push it a lot; a lot more than I'd normally push a low-ISO file!

 

And yeah, the remaining detial even once the file isn't looking so good in terms of colour, etc... is still amazing.

 

So here's something I was pretty happy with, mostly for personal reasons, but also because it shows just how low-light capable the camera really is...

 

Here's the setup--

 

This is my mother's birthday; she turned 84 years old yesterday! We have some tungsten light on a dimmer--very very low, and you can see it's the candle's illuminating her face.

 

I had the camera at ISO 1250 but didn't like the look of things; I turned it down knowing I could push the exposure more than I would have thought possible.

 

The result? A really sharp, even, low-light file that only exhibits the tiniest amount of streaking. Hand held, too

 

Elmarit 28 ASPH f2.8 @ 1/16s (!!); ISO 640. No filter, C1 processed +1 EV Leica M8_JHR_V1_profile

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[carstenw]

Glad you love the 28/2.8. I still highly recommend it. Am testing 28s right now for a lens article and it is coming up aces.

 

Sean, I was studying the downloadable PDFs for various Leica M lenses today, the two 28s included, and noticed something interesting. The 28/2.8 Asph is a great lens in its own right, which at pretty well all its apertures equals or perhaps even exceeds the capability of the 28/2.0 Asph, but only on the M8! In the far corners and sides, the 28/2.0 Asph is more stable in its performance, so although I guess you won't see this in your test, there might be another reason to get the 28/2.0 Asph instead... It seems that Leica has accepted some compromises for this lens only, which makes it superb, yet affordable, for M8 owners. I am sure it will still be a great lens on FF cameras, but here the 2.0 is clearly superior, not just for its extra stop. Something to keep in mind. Given that the 28 on an M8 has to replace a 35, which normally is offered in a Lux version, the Cron is looking more attractive to me every time I think about it. I have told my store not to hold the Elmarit for me any more, as I will save up the extra money for the Cron. Others have to decide for themselves if the extra stop, and better corner performance for film, and an eventual FF digital M, is worth the extra €600.

 

In fact, there are several other lenses whose performance really cleans up on the M8, even if they are still considered the best of their kind in the world on FF. The 1.33x crop factor seems to have been chosen extremely carefully for more than one reason. It is uncanny how well--and accurately--it cleans up the MTF charts of some really great lenses, the 75 Lux especially. I will post more about this elsewhere.

[marknorton]

€600? I thought the price difference between the 28s was more than that. I think you're correct, Leica needed to provide a value lens for the M8 and there's a range of the 28/2.8, 50/2, 90/4 to form an attractive lens set.

[carstenw]

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Sorry, you are right about the price difference. The new prices are more like €1350 and €2800, I believe, but I have a line on a second-hand 28/2 for about €2000, in as-new condition, so my mind was clouded. Alternatively, the 30% deal (if real) (hey, I'm a poet and didn't knoet) would bring the 28/2 price down...

[Bob Ross]

Dave--the strange thing for me is that the file doesn't break up until you push it a lot; a lot more than I'd normally push a low-ISO file!

 

And yeah, the remaining detial even once the file isn't looking so good in terms of colour, etc... is still amazing.

 

Hi Jamie,

That is a fun picture. The 28/2.8 Asph is a fine little gem, isn't it?

The image data depth of the M8 reminds me of the Oly E-1 that I have been using for three years, so I trace that to the Kodak KAF family of sensors. At times it seems that you just can't run out of image information. Those with the DMR might agree, too. My point of comparison has been the Sony sensor in the KM5D, where I have had to learn to be careful pushing images around.

BTW, thanks for all your fine profile work.

Bob

[billh]

Dave--the strange thing for me is that the file doesn't break up until you push it a lot; a lot more than I'd normally push a low-ISO file!

 

And yeah, the remaining detial even once the file isn't looking so good in terms of colour, etc... is still amazing.

 

So here's something I was pretty happy with, mostly for personal reasons, but also because it shows just how low-light capable the camera really is...

 

Here's the setup--

 

This is my mother's birthday; she turned 84 years old yesterday! We have some tungsten light on a dimmer--very very low, and you can see it's the candle's illuminating her face.

 

I had the camera at ISO 1250 but didn't like the look of things; I turned it down knowing I could push the exposure more than I would have thought possible.

 

The result? A really sharp, even, low-light file that only exhibits the tiniest amount of streaking. Hand held, too

 

Elmarit 28 ASPH f2.8 @ 1/16s (!!); ISO 640. No filter, C1 processed +1 EV Leica M8_JHR_V1_profile

 

Jamie,

 

Unless you worked a lot on your mom in PS, she looks more like 54 than 84!

 

Did you expose normally - say a zone 6 or so for your mom’s face, then dig for the shadow detain in curves?

 

The ability to use a lower, less noisy ISO is very appealing - I hope my M8 is back on Monday.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[erg]

Here are my Istanbul trip impressions with the 28 mm and M8. ISO 160 and open aperture, no postprocessing, no filter.

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Fall in Istanbul part II:

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And the final part...

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[osera]

Jamie-

What a great analysis here. I am seeing something similar in my files, although not so elegantly demonstrated.

 

Yes, the images straight out of the camera can be great. If done correctly in the camera, very little processing might be needed. For me, I don't need high volume processing capability, so files that can stand up this well to post-processing, either for correction of in-camera problems or difficult scenes,or for creative/artistic purposes is very significant. And in this fantastic form factor with these fantastic lenses...

 

 

Erg- terrific pictures there.

[sean_reid]

Hi Sean,

A good illustration of that can be seen in the pre-digital cameras. When I was on a assignment for Reuters in Sudan, I carried both Canon cameras & lenses and a M6 with a 28mm 2.8.

When I developed and printed (the nearly same) pictures from both camera's, I found that due to the harsh sunlight, the sky was totaly blown away on the canon, were as the Leica 28mm (without burning in) showed some clouds in the sky. In those days I used a hand lightmeter, so both had same shutter and F stop. Both, if I remember correctly, were loaded with TriX, so the "sensor" were the same.

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/attachments/people/3402d1153853494-archives-west-sudan-sudan.jpg

rgds,

 

Etienne

 

Hi Etienne,

 

That's a good example and an excellent picture. Thanks.

 

Sean

[John Maio]

I'm going to order a M8 from a local dealer here once you, Guy, Marc et al give your endorsement on the "upgraded" model ... make sure you drop by for a coffee when you come to downtown TO next time.

 

Does anyone know if Leica will mark the "upgraded" cameras in any way? P/N change, dash number, new s/n sequence. etc?

 

I'd like to be sure I was getting a new one if I re-order.

[mahler_one]

Nice work...impressive range and detail....thanks for taking the time to post.

 

 

E.Mahler

[ho_co]

Erhan--

You've raised an important question for me: Should I stay in Houston and wait for an M8, or make a visit to Turkey?

 

Very evocative images!

 

--HC

[blakley]

Jamie, for comparison here's an image from tonight; it's 1/30 @ f/1.4 on the 35/1.4 Lux ASPH with ISO set to 640 - so it's exactly the same EV as your shot. Shot with a B+W 486 filter in RAW; processed in C1 with out-of-the-box profile and color temperature 4200K. Cropped and "saved for web" in Photoshop; otherwise no adjustments.

 

[blakley]

It's pretty sharp. Here's an actual-pixels crop.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[erg]

Erhan--

You've raised an important question for me: Should I stay in Houston and wait for an M8, or make a visit to Turkey?

 

Very evocative images!

 

--HC

 

HC, I hope you will receive your M8 with the new firmware (1.10) soon. You can have a good time in Turkey without the M8 too.