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ReidReview review of Leica SF58 Flash Unit


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I can't speak for Canon, but pretty sure the metering of flash exposure in my Nikons uses the sensors used for metering ambient light. That metering occurs before the shutter opens. With film bodies the metering is still done off the surface of the film.

 

Your'e correct. I didn't know that, as I have never been able to see a pre-flash on NIkon or Canon. So I'll rephrase my question:

 

"Why does Leica have a longer delay between pre-flash and flash than Canon or Nikon...?

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"Why does Leica have a longer delay between pre-flash and flash than Canon or Nikon...?

 

With a DSLR the mirror will be up when the main flash fires so you see the pre-flash in the finder, but not the main flash. With the M bodies you see both flashes.

I just did an informal comparison. My Nikon D3000 using the popup flash has a very distinct gap between the pre-flash and main flash. With my D300/SB-600 combination that gap is barely noticeable. With my M8.2/SF-58 the gap is slightly shorter and almost appears as one long flash. Based on this I would conclude that in TTL the delay between the SB-600 and SF-58 pre-flash and main flash is very similar - with that of the SF-58 possibly shorter.

 

Regarding blinking: When using direct flash I always chimp to check for closed eyes. I occasionally have subjects who are hyper-sensitive to the pre-flash and it is almost impossible to get a shot with their eyes open using TTL. Then I have to use some method that does not involve a pre-flash. If I am not using direct flash blinking seems much less of an issue.

 

Edited by Luke_Miller
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I don't think so. Even though the mirror goes up, you aren't blinded, and can easily see the pre flash in the room, with your peripheral vision, or with your other eye. I absolutely cannot see a pre-flash with Canon, and it is really obvious with the Leica. Just FYI, I am shooting the Mark 4 and Mark 3S cameras. I have no idea how the consumer Canon bodies handle it because I don't use them.

 

There is something else going on here, I'm guessing drastically slower processing, or less than optimal design of the circuit.

 

Maybe the designers did not make it a priority to make a short gap because they were designers, not photographers. Only a photographer would know how a perceptible pre-flash would ruin a shot. Let's face it, some genius designer came up with the utterly worthless red eye reduction!

 

So here's my conclusion. If you need to shoot people photos with the M9 and flash on the camera and don't want to have them blinking, don't use TTL with the M9. Other techniques (off camera) and methods (auto mode) seem to work better.

 

I'm just trying to put this out there so that when the next person finds this thread while trying to decide whether to buy this flash, and what it is capable of will have the information. I am not a guy who spends a lot of time reading or posting on forums, I just go when I need information.

 

The TTL is not working for me. Whether it works for you depends on your expectations and the way you work.

 

Mike

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Maybe the designers did not make it a priority to make a short gap because they were designers, not photographers. Only a photographer would know how a perceptible pre-flash would ruin a shot. Let's face it, some genius designer came up with the utterly worthless red eye reduction!

 

So here's my conclusion. If you need to shoot people photos with the M9 and flash on the camera and don't want to have them blinking, don't use TTL with the M9. Other techniques (off camera) and methods (auto mode) seem to work better.

 

I'm just trying to put this out there so that when the next person finds this thread while trying to decide whether to buy this flash, and what it is capable of will have the information. I am not a guy who spends a lot of time reading or posting on forums, I just go when I need information.

 

The TTL is not working for me. Whether it works for you depends on your expectations and the way you work.

 

Mike

 

Mike, I don't think, somebody let the intern design the Leica variant of TTL flashes or the cameras circuitry, to communicate.

We are talking about Metz, a company, which does flash for quite a time and Leica, a renowned lens, camera and fashion maker, not Sony.

 

The way, I see the lack in the Leica flashes, compared to Canon and Nikon products is just this: flash is an afterthought in development for the Leica M.

Not the majority of Leica M users uses flash, if TTL flash at all. Flash has no priority.

 

For Canon and Nikon, flash is essential. The pro cameras, which are sold to big extends to professional users as journalists, sports shooters and alike need the best performance out of strobes - there is a strong market need AND A RACE between the two companies, to improve their already market leading performance. Why should Leica pair with Metz and compete with the performance of Canon and Nikon with flash?

It is not Leica's main market.

 

That time was in the 50's. And even back then, the M was not the big rig, to shoot with bulbs (it could be done, and some did), but it's reason of being was small size, but excellent quality on the negative paired with simple operation.

 

The people, who might want to use TTL flash opposed to manual or Auto flash want a quick shot, be it out of convenience or out of quick changing lighting conditions.

It is like it is and the SF58 is the best solution, if one needs TTL on a Leica (the only others being a set of Metz items or the SF24D).

 

I use Nikon and love the simple fully automated and spot on Nikon metering and TTL flash, when I want it (again: convenience for me) or the excellent ergonomics, when needed in manual modes (product shots).

I bought the SF58, to expand the poor low light performance of the M8.2 sensor, to use lower ISO in very dark scenes. It does the job - sort of (still learning/ fighting).

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  • 2 weeks later...

So here's my conclusion. If you need to shoot people photos with the M9 and flash on the camera and don't want to have them blinking, don't use TTL with the M9. Other techniques (off camera) and methods (auto mode) seem to work better.

 

Good advice, but hardly unique to Leica. I just did a casual group shot of five people in a semi-dark room using a Nikon D300 and SB-600 in TTL. I was not able to get a shot where everyone had their eyes open until I used the Nikon FV Lock feature, which does the preflash and sets flash output before you press the shutter release.

 

If I did not have the FV Lock feature I would not have been able to take the shot using TTL and would have had to resort to another flash mode that did not utilize preflashes.

 

I believe the "blinkies" are a preflash issue and not a problem specific to a particular manufacturer. It is a common topic on the several Nikon forums I frequent.

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Well, all I can say is that using my Canon Mk3S and Mk4 cameras I absolutely cannot see the preflash and have never had an issue with blinking. With the M9 it's obvious and definitely causes the subjects to blink.

I may be able to shed some light on that ........ About 3 years ago I looked into the Canon flash to flash protocols and in particular the ST-E2 controller and the 580EX flashes. I wanted to make a long range spread beam IR laser equivalent of the ST-E2. Communication between flashes or the ST-E2 and 580EXs is by rapidly switching on and off the flash tube output to produce a digital IR light pulse train. The switching is very rapid, in the order of microseconds and about 90 bits long. Their flash control circuitry is capable of very rapid response times so I'm not suprised you can't see the measuring/pre flashes.

 

Bob.

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Hello, has anyone used a Metz P76 battery pack with a SF-58? It looks like it would work. Not sure before I spend the money.

 

thanks

Jim

 

I use a metz 54 in 'gnc' mode' which is pre-flash ttl on leicas and it works fine on m9 and m8. The flash is bigger than the camera and looks silly, but is reliable, powerful and produces good results.

 

Regards ... Harold

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  • 6 years later...
  • 1 year later...

Good Day All;

 

 

I am faced with the same problem. Basic's; I'm using film camera's and M262 body. I need a flash unit for a project, after that not sure how much I will have a need for in the future. My camera's are not TLL. So I will be, and don't mind using the manual mode on a flash. I'm old school anyway....Still process my own film and then scan...

 

Leica flash 58, I like, but pricey. The Metz, I know the brand, quality. Question, is there a hotshot that I can connect to the flash, so the flash is not on the camera? For me, more control over the lighting unit if the light source is not on the camera, but away from the camera body.

 

Last, would you consider or recommend another brand to use with a Leica? 

 

Thank you all for your advice, and information, very much appreciated......

joe

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I don't have flash in thread title. I have tiny SF26D which is worth of every penny on M-E. On non-TTL film cameras, Leica included, I use simple flashes. Like really simple. Center contact and flash. And it works. Film is this forgiving. And they works on M-E as well.

 

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For off camera flash, find simple radio triggers. Or use optical slaves just like on my photo.

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