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M8 Perpetual Upgrade Programme

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Leica have indicated to me that the horizontal banding issue would be fixed "by a later LEICA M8 firmware update."

 

This gives me the sense that M8 firmware updates will continue but I agree that a definitive statement would be curteous.

 

Graeme

 

Unless you were talking to one of the top people in the company I think whoever you were talking to just said that to get you off the phone.

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As long as these guys plan to continue issuing software updates that help the M8 be all it can be, I'm happy. I've never expected a lifetime of mechanical/sensor upgrades.

What I cannot accept is holding out things like manual lens selection - maybe they think that'll force us to buy M9s.

The company used to argue that offering manual lens selection would only create problems for users. Obviously they've realized they were wrong. So what's the harm in now giving that to M8 users? Frankly, I'll be shocked if they don't offer that in the next firmware update.

 

And really, you cannot make comparisons between the mechanical M6 and the computerized M8. It does not take that much effort to tweak a computer program.

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So what's the harm in now giving that to M8 users? Frankly, I'll be shocked if they don't offer that in the next firmware update.

 

It does not take that much effort to tweak a computer program.

 

No harm at all, it depends on cost. As I've mentioned before what may seem like a small and simple change to the end user can in fact be a complicated rewrite of the software. I've no evidence that this is the case other than what Stephan Daniels has said in an interview.

 

'Tweaking' a computer program may indeed not require much effort on occasion, but the opposite is often the case and since Leica or their associates are the only people with access to the source code, only they are in a position to decide on the difficulty, or otherwise, of an individual change.

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I'm not a lawyer by profession, but I did do three years of business law, and negotiate contracts as part of my "day job".

 

I view the "Lee letter" as a fit of corporate numb-nuts stupidity in the first place. That said, I suspect that any defence would rely upon it being an "invitation to treat" Invitation to treat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia rather than an offer. I have a lot of sympathy with those who think that Leica should clarify the position with regard to future M8 support, but none with those who take the "hardline" view that Leica should "honour their promise".

 

Agreed. Meanwhile the claimants would have to demonstrate not only that the "upgrade promise" was a promise, but also that wouldn't have bought their M8s without it.

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Considering the amount of stuff Leica did for the M8 in terms of firmware upgrades and the M8u option I think they have a pretty decent track record in providing technically feasible upgrades.

 

Upgrading a M8 to a FF M9 is just not on, and this should not be classed as an upgrade. To what extent any of the M9 firmware tricks can be carried over to the M8 is unclear. I would assume that they are evaluating this very seriously and will provide a statement of what is or is not possible to implement.

 

So long as they keep servicing the M8 for the forseeable future and keep up giving us (free) firmware modifications where possible I believe they will have kept their promise.

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What I cannot accept is holding out things like manual lens selection - maybe they think that'll force us to buy M9s.

 

My guess is that there will be one more upgrade and the manual lens selection will be at the heart of it... This would put at bay most of the howling here right now and once the manual lens selection is in place no further software updates would be needed to the M8. As new lenses come out Leica could just suggest a lens setting that "matches" the new lens...

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Is it not right that M8 software updates have generally co-incided with the introduction of new lenses so that the camera can make best and proper use of them? I see no reason to suppose that this will not continue as coding is needed on the M8.

 

As to whether manual selection will be provided ..... well .... your guess is as good as mine, but mine is no, they won't. One can manage perfectly well without it by selecting the nearest equivalent Leica lens. Remember that you'll still need the UV/IR filters no matter what.

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And really, you cannot make comparisons between the mechanical M6 and the computerized M8. It does not take that much effort to tweak a computer program.

 

 

Well it was said during the interview that the firmware was designed from the ground up. Perhaps it's not that simple. In any event I would appreciate acknowledgement and hope they don't abandon us altogether.

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Leica are on safe ground because they never said the upgrades would make economic sense. If pressed, they could simply offer an upgrade from the M8 to M9 or any future camera for the price of that camera. You wouldn't then have an M8 any more and there's been no commitment to upgrade anything other than the M8.

 

My beef with them was that they actually went out of their way to restrict the discreet mode to the M8.2 and not provide it in the M8u.

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My beef with them was that they actually went out of their way to restrict the discreet mode to the M8.2 and not provide it in the M8u.

 

They did and for marketing reasons alone. I think they recognised their mistake and reversed Stephan's decision in time. They are unlikely to make the mistake again, but the problem we have with this manufacturer is that they prefer to leave customers in the dark and frustrated, rather than give notice of their intent.

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Unless you were talking to one of the top people in the company I think whoever you were talking to just said that to get you off the phone.

 

Errr....I have it in writing, but thanks for the patronising comment:

 

Dear Mr. Graeme,

Thanks for your interest in the Leica M system.

The mentioned intermittent failure is now known by our Quality Department. We will fix that by a later LEICA M8 firmware update.

So is it not necessary to rectify the camera before warranty runs out.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards

 

i. A. Ulrich Deiß

Leica Camera AG / Informationsservice /

Oskar-Barnack-Straße 11 / D-35606 Solms /

Leica Camera AG / info@leica-camera.com /

Telefon +49 (0) 6442-208-111 / Telefax 49 (0) 6442-208-339

 

Werden Sie Zeuge der Enthüllung der nächsten Generation von Leica Kameras.

Witness the unveiling of the next generation of Leica cameras.

Leica Camera AG

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The problem for Leica is that different people want different things, and when you add them all together you probably end up with an M9.

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That gets a laugh from me. I paid well over $4K for a Nikon D1x in 2002 and a couple of years later Nikon announces the D2X. Do you think they looked in my direction as they moved on? Fat chance.

 

 

That is exactly why we didn't buy NIKONS and we pay 5000euros to buy the M8.

Leica sales has no -ZERO- excuse for the dropping of the M8/M8.2/

I have to remind to all of us that the only kind upscale digital camera from LEICA(2007-2009) was the M8 and those they bought it they TOTALY SUPPORT AND CREATE THE SURVIVAL OF LEICA IN DIGITAL TIMES and LEICA has to return the huge-life saving- help that all M8 owners offer in the company by either upgrading M8 BODIES TO M9 or by offering a refund to the thousands level when an M8 is returned towards the purchase of an M9.Is not a joke is a very serious situation that LEICA is obligated to respond within days.Any body who likes to buy the new model every next year can/should always look at other brands,the high price of a leica m body can only be justified with the longevity of the model,the descent resale value and the long life circle.In M9 LEICA adress few issues that she was obliged to correct in the M8 long time ago.M9 is not a final model as we all can see,there is a long way to an overall well functioning M DIGITAL BODY and they will be more M in the future,looks like LEICA was again in a hurry like it was with the M8.Instead ,it would be much more profitable to develop the DSLR and to develop lenses that delivers the quality of the competitiros and a touch better at prices that they could sell in big numbers.

LEICA MP,R8,R4s,DIGILUX2,CM Titanium,DLUX2,CLUX1,DLUX4 Titanium,M8 upgrade to M8.2,14 LEICA R lenses,6 LEICA M lenses.

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
addition

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My expectations are modest. The future M8 firmware updates will be to fix bugs only. The M8 is at its design point and there is no obligation to add features and function without cost to the end user.

 

I would pay for the manual lens detection feature as I have a couple of uncoded lenses.... if Leica Marketing is listening.

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In retrospect, it would appear that the M8 was a bit rushed. I actually suspect that, given it's utter pointlessness, the 'protect' button was originally designated for changing ISO settings, or something else more useful. I just cannot imagine the thinking behind wasting a button on 'protect'.

 

In the same vein, I was very, very angry when M8.2 came out. The 'sapphire glass' upgrade was an utter smokescreen. If 'accurate framelines' and 'shutter that doesn't make you jump out of your skin the first time you hear it', were offered on their own as 'upgrades', maybe more people will have questioned why their camera didn't have accurate framelines or a half decent shutter in the first place....

 

The M8 was M9 beta, and I think Leica acted a little sneakily. They owe M8 owners something- there's a common feeling of injustice which I don't think is misplaced.

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...Leica sales has no -ZERO- excuse for the dropping of the M8/M8.2/

I have to remind to all of us that the only kind upscale digital camera from LEICA(2007-2009) was the M8 and those they bought it they TOTALY SUPPORT AND CREATE THE SURVIVAL OF LEICA IN DIGITAL TIMES and LEICA has to return the huge-life saving- help that all M8 owners offer in the company by either upgrading M8 BODIES TO M9 or by offering a refund to the thousands level when an M8 is returned towards the purchase of an M9.Is not a joke is a very serious situation that LEICA is obligated to respond within days...

 

Angelos, welcome to the Forum, and to our planet. I fear your suggestion falls apart on a number of levels:

 

  • Leica is a business not a charity
  • Nobody forced you to buy an M8
  • It is total bollocks

Regards,

 

Bill

 


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The M8 was M9 beta, and I think Leica acted a little sneakily. They owe M8 owners something- there's a common feeling of injustice which I don't think is misplaced.

 

Sigh.

 

And another.

 

Is it something in the water? Get real.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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