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M8 / noise / curiosity


geotrupede

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A beginner question for the more experienced,

is the M8's noise just a high ISO related limitation or has it to do with low EV situation (long exposures or high iso required)?

 

i.e. are these two situations noisy the same or not?

iso 1600, 2s, f2

iso 200, 16s, f2

 

Is it possible to take pictures of stars in motion? (exposure >>1 hour)

 

Once the exposure is taken, is there any additional delay due to noise reduction? How long it takes? Same as time of shot?

 

Thanks

 

G

 

PS M8 dreaming...

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A beginner question for the more experienced,

is the M8's noise just a high ISO related limitation or has it to do with low EV situation (long exposures or high iso required)?

 

i.e. are these two situations noisy the same or not?

iso 1600, 2s, f2

iso 200, 16s, f2

 

Is it possible to take pictures of stars in motion? (exposure >>1 hour)

 

Once the exposure is taken, is there any additional delay due to noise reduction? How long it takes? Same as time of shot?

 

Thanks

 

G

 

PS M8 dreaming...

 

Yes, Same as time of shot.

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Since I bought my first M8 in June 2007, I’ve been using Adobe Camera RAW to process DNG files. Probably, because I was already more comfortable using Photoshop than CaptureOne (I didn’t know this program) but also because CaptureOne LE 3.7.x was not fully compatible with Microsoft Vista.

 

Recently, I decided to update CaptureOne LE 3.7.x to CaptureOne LE 4.8.3 (free upgrade). Concerning noise, I must say I get less noise using CaptureOne!

 

Last night I did a dirty test. I took some pictures here at my house in the country (light was terrible: low consumption bulbs) at ISO 1250 and ISO 2500 and I was really impressed with the results.

 

Of course, I’m not saying M8 is good at high ISO… but using CaptureOne is noticeably better than Adobe Camera RAW.

 

I agree with Enrico: A good exposure is the key to get less noise. I tried underexposing and overexposing from -2/3 to +2/3 correcting exposure afterwards with software. I also get the best results overexposing +1/3 or +2/3 and using these parameters:

 

ICC Profile: Leica M8 generic UV-IR

Curve: Film High Contrast

 

Increasing a bit contrast may help on dark areas.

 

Well, I think, from now on I will stop using Photoshop CS4 Camera RAW to process my DNG... at least for low light shots :D

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thanks,

ok, so I guess no photos of stars...

btw, what about noise

 

I should not know why you shouldn't take photographs of stars. The long-exposure noise reduction works with a black frame, i.e. the camera takes a black shot of the same length of the exposure to determine the hot pixels and subtracts them. That way no fine detail is lost, not even on pixel level.

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@ArtZ: There´s a little Problem if you use the way you do: changing the Exposure with the camera´s software in the menu, the "+" item makes a shorter time; means the photo will be underexposured. (That´s the way I usually take outdoor fotos, adjusting them in C1) If you wnat to overexposure, you will have to use the "-" setting, right?

 

lg from Willich/Germany

 

Dieter

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@ArtZ: There´s a little Problem if you use the way you do: changing the Exposure with the camera´s software in the menu, the "+" item makes a shorter time; means the photo will be underexposured. (That´s the way I usually take outdoor fotos, adjusting them in C1) If you wnat to overexposure, you will have to use the "-" setting, right?

 

lg from Willich/Germany

 

Dieter

 

Forgive me if I'm suffering from total brain death here, but isn't it the other way around? ('-' = underexposure and '+' = overexposure?) :confused:

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@ArtZ: There´s a little Problem if you use the way you do: changing the Exposure with the camera´s software in the menu, the "+" item makes a shorter time; means the photo will be underexposured. (That´s the way I usually take outdoor fotos, adjusting them in C1) If you wnat to overexposure, you will have to use the "-" setting, right?

 

lg from Willich/Germany

 

Dieter

 

Dieter,

 

If I use the M8 on "Auto" mode, I will overexpose from +1/3 to +2/3 using the "SET" button at the back of the camera... and then I will correct the exposure (underexpose) on CaptureOne.

 

If I use "Manual" mode, I will overexpose of 1/3 or 2/3 stop decreasing the shutter speed and I will underexpose on CaptureOne

 

For ISO 1250 +1/3 is usually enough, for ISO 2500 I get better results with +2/3 but it really depends on the available light and the scene (dark/light colors, shadows...)

 

Regards

 

ArtZ

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Regarding >1hr exposure, I can't say for sure, but it does not seem to work.

 

While I was in Sedona, sky looked great. So, I thought I give a try. setup the camera, put on bulb with cable release locked. Went back outside to check about 1/2 hour later, camera had decided to close the shutter. I think it closed around 15 minutes. But, I have not bothered to check the behavior since there is not much of chance for star trail photo around Seattle.

 

My guess is that there might be an upper limit on length of the exposure.

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A beginner question for the more experienced,

is the M8's noise just a high ISO related limitation or has it to do with low EV situation (long exposures or high iso required)?

 

i.e. are these two situations noisy the same or not?

iso 1600, 2s, f2

iso 200, 16s, f2

 

Is it possible to take pictures of stars in motion? (exposure >>1 hour)

 

Once the exposure is taken, is there any additional delay due to noise reduction? How long it takes? Same as time of shot?

 

Thanks

 

G

 

PS M8 dreaming...

 

I believe, short of using a full-frame sensor camera that's rated for high ISO work, you're going to see noise at both of these settings no matter what camera you use. Some cameras treat photos with noise reduction so you might not see artifacts and stray lit pixels.

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I generally apply reduction using Neat Image when I find the noise annoying. Sometimes it is only noticeable in the shadow areas.

 

Another nice trick is to convert to b/w so that the noise looks like grain. Doesn't help, of course, if you need a color image.

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