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Hobby or Pro?


malfaris

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Hi Guys,

i am new here, i became very interested in Leica after the new releases I already Pre orderd the X1. and i am so interested in buying the M9 too but the price for me as hobbyist photographer lets say i cant justified it. I have canon 5dmark II with many of the top lenses offered by canon which is called the L series. I sometimes think seriously about M9 but when i go to see the lenses prices they are all around $4k+, few around 1700 which is fair but the rest is insane to me. i am not saying its overpriced. canon highest qualities lenses around 1800, other than the f1.x telephoto lenses. here is what i am surprised from, I think most photographers are hobbyist more than pros, and i see from the M9 forum lol that few care less about price. dont you have hard time buying those super expensive lenses?. or you leica owners are all so rich that you just upgrade from M to M without caring less?, or is it you are so passionate about leica photography to the extent you think its the most important thing to spend money on? Btw i am full time engineer with somewhat high salary but as i said i really want to buy, but really cant justified do it especially the lenses, maybe with some insight from you guys I will do it lol:) I know its kinda wired questions but bare with me here lol.

Also it sells where i live (UAE) for $7880 M9 body and i am surprised its already in stock.

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malfaris,

 

That is a pretty good question, I don't think anyone here would consider themselves "really" rich so to speak. but at the same time it is clear that a lot of the users have a pretty solid cash flow. (at least that is what it looks like from the bleachers where I sit)

 

Im happy to spring for the M9, but generally stick to Zeiss lenses, they are probably comparable to many leica lenses, and they might be better than the L series from Canon, probably significantly better.. You can stock up on nice Zeiss stuff for 500-1500 depending on your taste, my 28mm 2.8 was about 900.-

 

.

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One of the beauties of being an amateur photographer is that you don't have to justify your purchases. Well, perhaps to your spouse if you're married. On the other hand, when professionals buy new equipment, they must weigh the cost and benefit from a business standpoint.

 

Rocky

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I think it's wrong to try to justify it. It has more to do with personal standards and "love factor" than with economy.

 

Try to build a new kitchen or bathroom and you can talk about money. Compared to many other pleasures in life, M9 is not expensive. It's about what an original CD-player cost for a Volvo. Or a sunroof in most cars.

 

In practical terms, the M9 cost what is does. No way about it.

 

But as for lenses, many old secondhand lenses are great. As an axample, there's the 50mm/2 Summicron that goes for very little money. Fantastic lens. Also the 50/1.4 non-ASPH is considered more pleasant looking by many than the new 50/1.4 ASPH.

 

Also the f/2.5 lenses from Leica (new) are prices reasonable and you get a lot for the bucks there. And the f/2.5 doesn't really matter for a camera that handles 800-1200 ISO without problems.

 

Start with something great for a reasonable price, and then dream about the next step to the dream lens (be it Noctilux, Summilux'es or other).

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An anecdote from another expensive hobby: A Norwegian author who loves the sea, wrote a small piece about how a family should go by to find out if they should buy a boat: Cover the kitchen table with a large cloth so it hangs down on all sides. The whole family gathers under the table - the mother and the children have small buckets of water that they splash on each other, while the father tears 100-dollar bills in small pieces. If the family enjoys this, they should buy a boat!!!

 

Morale of the story: Certain passions do not (fully) belong to the domain of reason. It is a question of what you enjoy, and of course what you can pay. If you look around, completely normal people spend silly money on silly activities. I certainly respect that for some people, and in some phases of life, this is beyond reach. But if you are able to plan long term, there are ways to enter the hobby gradually based on used equipment, starting with 1 or 2 lenses, maybe not even Leica originals. Before you know it, you have spent more than you ever imagined on lenses and stuff, and hopefully you still have food on your table (and your wife hasn't left you). But don't get too wet!

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My father always defined the word "displacement" as the size of the space in the ocean into which he tossed money.

 

Don't even get me started on the car, Joyce drove it over the curb the first week because she always did that with the Mercedes... Two new 19 inch front rims and tires in a week. :eek:

 

Did you know Bentley did not have a single car which would qualify for the "cash for clunkers" program because of fuel economy.

 

.

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Malfaris, before this thread roams too far off course I would like to note that many forum members here are either full time working pros, or amateurs good enough to finance their hobby through sales of their work.

 

Others here buy a lot of their equipment second hand.

 

So it's tough to generalize about Leica fans in this regard.

 

Doug

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Hi Guys,

Also it sells where i live (UAE) for $7880 M9 body and i am surprised its already in stock.

 

Is that $7800 US dollars or UAE dollars.

I take it you live in the United Arab Emerates.

If that is US dollars that is why the dealers have them in stock. The camera is $6995, US dollars, so the dealers are asking to much for it.

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I'm a professional photographer. I've used Leicas for over 30 years. I bought Canons when Leica was slow to switch to digital, but I never sold my Leicas. All you have to do is compare photos from the Canon L wide lenses and Leica wide lenses - especially at 100%. Then you'll know why Leica is worth what you pay for it.

 

Tina

 

Tina Manley

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DSLR users, especially hobbyists, tend towards owning too many lenses. They often try and cover all the wides, teles, primes and zooms. But, photographers with the most defined styles tend to only work in a handful of preferred focal lengths. So this means that the more refined a photographer becomes at his own personal style, the more comfortable he becomes working with only a handful of focal lengths.

 

Some might notice that there are quite a few leica shooters that only use a single focal length or possibly only 3 lenses total. For this reason, many of them can afford to spend twice as much on a Leica lens than the average canon dslr user might spend on his L lens collection. Leica devotees trend towards preferring certain focal lengths and generally are happy with fewer lenses in their arsenal....but better lenses. The whole quality over quantity thing seems to really be a factor for a lot of leica shooters

 

That doesn't mean that Leica is devoid of gearheads. There are plenty of those around. However, Leica shooters tend to work towards the goal of only owning a few perfect lenses. They usually consider it a sign of purity to only use one lens. DSLR users tend to believe they can only achieve nirvana when their whole closet is filled with every lens in the Canon or Nikon lineup...

Edited by Gentleman Villain
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Leica can be expensive, especially in the domain of DRF. That said, it doesn't have to be exorbitant. The M8/8.2 is an excellent body to start with. And if you could narrow down your interests to a particular field, ie street shoot, travel photography, portraits, etc, you could start off with just one lens. At today's used market prices, you'd probably spend less than USD5k for body and lens in great condition. And in case you don't like shooting RFs, Leica holds its value well -- it may cost an arm getting in but you won't lose your shirt getting out. ;)

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i can from shooting with slrs. but i've always loved leica Ms. ever since i was 17 or so, and i'm not old now. i don't have a high income either. but, if you understand the mystique of leica, and you appreciate it, then the cost doesn't seem to really matter. to me anyway. i've bought 2nd hand gear that's in good condition otherwise it'll be very difficult to own.

 

but i think it doesn't matter whether you're a pro or not, if you like leicas, then you can own one. not everyone that drives a porsche can drive it well or drive it fast. but they love the car for what it is. same applies to leicas.

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thank you guys very thoughtful comments, i really appreciate every comment. all what have been said make alot of sense, and i find it very true that in the DSLR realm you need alot of lenses, much more than you actually need. I am now thinking of selling my least favorite L lenses and try the M9 with one of the reasonably priced Leica 50mm.

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