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6bit coding 50mm lenses?


brianpe

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I have a 50mm 'cron and a Noctilux that I never bothered to get coded. On my M8 with the crop, I never really needed to. Is there value in getting these coded for the M9? Yes, I know I can manually set them, but I also know that if I do, I'm going to forget the next time I slap on my 35.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

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I haven't got my M9 yet, so I do not know for sure. But a 50 on the M9 takes in an angle of view that is nearly as large as that of a 35 on the M8. And a.o.w. is what it is all about, so I would say that coding should be worthwhile, though not mandatory.

 

There are outstanding issues however. Already the M8 applied some 'generic' vignetting correction even to uncoded lenses. Does the M9 do more or less of that? Only practical, controlled experiments can solve that, and I will of course do them as soon as I can. I too have your problem: I have had my Summilux ASPH coded, but my collapsible Elmar is uncodeable!

 

The old man from the Age of Collapsible Photographers

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I have a 50mm 'cron and a Noctilux that I never bothered to get coded. On my M8 with the crop, I never really needed to. Is there value in getting these coded for the M9? Yes, I know I can manually set them, but I also know that if I do, I'm going to forget the next time I slap on my 35.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

All I can read from Leica itself and in some reviews is, that the new function of setting the lens code manually gives you the same results as coding the lenses. So there should be no need to code them, but you still can, if and as long Leica offers the coding service and the lens construction allows coding.

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One problem with that is, I gather, that you do not only enter the list manually -- you have to exit it manually too, because the M9 continues to use your setting even after you have mounted a different, coded lens! That of course can have dire consequences. That happened to David Farkas, and he did not like it. Sean Reid did notice it too, but it seems to have touched his soft manual spot. I presume this can be fixed in a future firmware update. I simply cannot imagine that Leica have done this deliberately. It must be plain oversight on their part. Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

 

The old man from the Age of Manual Lens Change by Screw Thread

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You exit manual mode by setting lens detection back to auto. If it is set to manual that is what you get. No different from shooting at 1/2000 when A would have used 1/125.

 

And perhaps you're touching on why it wasn't there in the M8, we'd mess things up. Well we asked for it and we got it so more ways to mess up with a manual camera. Don't get me wrong, I welcome the feature and know I'll mess it up to if and when I get one that I don't have to give back.

 

- Carl

Edited by cbretteville
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One problem with that is, I gather, that you do not only enter the list manually -- you have to exit it manually too, because the M9 continues to use your setting even after you have mounted a different, coded lens! That of course can have dire consequences. That happened to David Farkas, and he did not like it. Sean Reid did notice it too, but it seems to have touched his soft manual spot. I presume this can be fixed in a future firmware update. I simply cannot imagine that Leica have done this deliberately. It must be plain oversight on their part. Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

 

The old man from the Age of Manual Lens Change by Screw Thread

 

I strongly believe they got this right. Lens selection is no more manual on the M9 than is aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc. By *not* letting the lens code over-ride the manual setting, Leica has allowed us to mix and match corrections (even for coded lenses). People may not realize it yet, but that flexibility will be useful.

 

If they add an auto-detection over-ride it should come in only as a selectable option (menu).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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You exit manual mode by setting lens detection back to auto. If it is set to manual that is what you get. No different from shooting at 1/2000 when A would have used 1/125.

- Carl

 

Exactly...and I would argue that the M9 is best suited to photographers who do their own thinking when working. Sure we might forget just as we might forget some other setting. But we'll live and learn.

 

Boy, the number of ways one can screw up with a view camera is large. One can forget to rewind film, etc.

 

We gain freedom if the camera doesn't force an over-ride and people may well find that they want to shoot a 21 set as a 24, etc..

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LOL.. Andy, was just thinking about that viewcamera thing. Almost no limit to what can go wrong with sheetfilm... yet it works pretty well. (not forgetting actually setting up and operating the camera.)

 

a-la-carte firmware... soo lets see, I pick favorite options, and suddenly the next firmware release will need to support 15 different varieties of firmware... :D hmmm. me thinks thats in the same bucket as the eternity upgradable M8 program

 

.

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What I will probably do for my couple of uncoded lenses is set them up as a user profile, say "90mm APO" and then I only have to set a profile and not wade through the menu. Since I only shoot DNG's and everything else will stay the same in each profile it makes the most sense to me. At least until I get them all coded.

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One problem with that is, I gather, that you do not only enter the list manually -- you have to exit it manually too, because the M9 continues to use your setting even after you have mounted a different, coded lens! That of course can have dire consequences. That happened to David Farkas, and he did not like it. Sean Reid did notice it too, but it seems to have touched his soft manual spot. I presume this can be fixed in a future firmware update. I simply cannot imagine that Leica have done this deliberately. It must be plain oversight on their part. Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

 

The old man from the Age of Manual Lens Change by Screw Thread

 

Yes, I also tend to forget things. I am not even always sure, if the lens is coded or not. So I am happy when electronics think for me when I change from an uncoded lens to a coded one (just by setting "automatic lens detection"). Unfortunately the electronic watchdog will stay asleep, when I change the other way. I just can't cope with automatic "overriding" my forgetfulness.

 

The not so old man from the Age of Believe in Electronics.

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As people get more and more experience with the M9 I think some will find that they want to either strengthen the in-camera corrections for a given lens (go down a focal length using the manual selection menu) or, more likely, weaken those corrections (go up a focal length).

 

Some may be happy as is but the room to tweak is going to be useful for us.

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What I will probably do for my couple of uncoded lenses is set them up as a user profile, say "90mm APO" and then I only have to set a profile and not wade through the menu. Since I only shoot DNG's and everything else will stay the same in each profile it makes the most sense to me. At least until I get them all coded.

Charles -- I hadn't thought of that. It's an excellent idea. I think I'll live with no coding for a while and see how the images turn out. If vignetting seems extreme I may send one off (probably the 'cron, since I may like the vignette on the noctilux) .

 

I do like the idea of automatically returning to "auto" mode when a coded lens is mounted, but I can see a equal number of people disliking that option...which means yet another option in the menus...which adds to more twiddling and complexity.

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Charles -- I hadn't thought of that. It's an excellent idea. I think I'll live with no coding for a while and see how the images turn out. If vignetting seems extreme I may send one off (probably the 'cron, since I may like the vignette on the noctilux) .

 

I do like the idea of automatically returning to "auto" mode when a coded lens is mounted, but I can see a equal number of people disliking that option...which means yet another option in the menus...which adds to more twiddling and complexity.

 

Vignetting will be less of a problem than cyan drift. Unless the lens is about 50 mm or longer one needs to somehow tell the camera what cyan drift corrections to provide.

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As people get more and more experience with the M9 I think some will find that they want to either strengthen the in-camera corrections for a given lens (go down a focal length using the manual selection menu) or, more likely, weaken those corrections (go up a focal length).

 

Some may be happy as is but the room to tweak is going to be useful for us.

 

Sean, I can see that some people would like the ability to tweak corrections. BUT why do it this Heath Robinson/Rube Goldberg way? Put in a 'tweak' option where you can say "I want a bit more vignetting with my Noctilux". We others, who don't want to tweak, or who tweak in PP, or who are sometimes in a hurry and can forget things (senile dementia approaching, I suppose), would appreciate if the camera would revert to coding when a different, coded lens was mounted. Is not this rational? Is it in any way demeaning to our Photographic Egos? Not to mine.

 

Also, would a 'revert when changing lenses' rob you of the opportunity to tweak? The camera would revert only when you removed the lens you had tweaked. And it would not preserve the tweaking for the next time you mounted the 'tweaking lens' -- you would have to re-tweak it again. I did NOT suggest that existing coding should make 'menu choice' impossible. It should be there always.

 

And yes Bo, I have worked a bit with sheet film in holders and have made the requisite bloopers, all of them. But a view camera (or as in my case, a Mamiya Press with the tilt/swing back) is a different beast from an action camera, which is what a Leica M is. If you have put the camera on a tripod and put the matte screen back on it, then you have time to make and correct mistakes. Not when shooting any kind of street theatre with a M. We might as well bemoan the loss of the need to put a cap on the lens when recocking a null series Leica. What wonderful artistic effects that non-capping shutter could give rise to!

 

The old man from the Age of Bi-Manual Photographers

Edited by lars_bergquist
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As people get more and more experience with the M9 I think some will find that they want to either strengthen the in-camera corrections for a given lens (go down a focal length using the manual selection menu) or, more likely, weaken those corrections (go up a focal length).

 

Some may be happy as is but the room to tweak is going to be useful for us.

 

Perhaps in a future implementation we may see the DNG corrections amendable in post processing as the new DNG standard allows for this functionality. I think I recall Stefan Daniel in his interview saying that the corrections currently are applied at the minimum necssary for the specific lens and do not take into account aperture in use (which affects the vignette amount of course).

I think that Leica should be applauded of course for providing the manual setting option that people requested. I'll be happy to rely on the 6 bit coding personally. My last uncoded lens is for sale. What is unspoken of course is that people will use this function with non Leica lenses as well as Leica lenses that predate the last three years manufacture with coding.

Has anyone determined as yet if the manual setting operate independently from the frame-line lever position? I suspect not, but I think it is technically interesting to see what has been implemented.

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Perhaps in a future implementation we may see the DNG corrections amendable in post processing as the new DNG standard allows for this functionality.

 

That is correct - however, there's a little issue with respect to that - lens correction is only allowed as part of the original DNG file, not as part of a DNG camera profile, so you can't change the processing in post. If it was allowed as part of a profile, you could just change profiles in Lightroom or ACR to change correction.

 

I did post a feature request to the Adobe folks a while ago: Adobe Forums: Feature Request: Opcodes in DNG Camera...

 

However, there was no response from either Thomas Knoll or Eric Chan, so I suspect that the request falls into the bin of "interesting idea, but not on the priority list"

 

Sandy

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That is correct - however, there's a little issue with respect to that - lens correction is only allowed as part of the original DNG file, not as part of a DNG camera profile, so you can't change the processing in post. If it was allowed as part of a profile, you could just change profiles in Lightroom or ACR to change correction.

 

I did post a feature request to the Adobe folks a while ago: Adobe Forums: Feature Request: Opcodes in DNG Camera...

 

However, there was no response from either Thomas Knoll or Eric Chan, so I suspect that the request falls into the bin of "interesting idea, but not on the priority list"

 

Sandy

Thank you Sandy for expanding on that for me. I must educate myself further there then. I think I interpreted from Stefan Daniel's interview that they had not implemented those opcodes anyway? I need to watch again.

In any case, I look forward to seeing the M9 profiles in a future ACR release, perhaps soon. LR2.5 was too soon to include it I imagine. I plan to make a custom profile too as I have done for my M8.

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