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shutter ?


jackal

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Two things to do.

Set the camera on Discreet mode and a high shutter speed, take a shot. What do you hear.

Then put it on 1 or 2 second exposure, take a shot. What do you hear.

 

The 2 clicks you are hearing is the shutter opening and closing. Then of course if you are not in discreet mode you will hear the shutter recock.

There is no delay that anyone can measure.

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no i AM in discreet mode so i'm not talking about the recock sound

 

when i press the release i get two distinct sounds even at 1/4000

 

if I had to spell it it sounds like:

 

'ker.. dink'

 

the first click 'ker' is a light faint click and then the 'dink' part is a louder clonk. As stated, this is the same at all fast shutter speeds. When yuo get down to low shutters speeds you then start to hear 3 distinct clicks.

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there are two clicks when you press the shutter ?

 

presumbly the shutter actually fires on the first click or is there a delay ?

 

Yes, there appears (to my ears) to be two clicks when you press the release followed by the shutter closing and then the recocking. I would make a guess that the first click is the latch being released that prevents the shutter from inadvertently firing from vibration and the second click is the shutter actually being opened and then the final clunk of it closing. Mark Norton described this in his "Anatomy of the M8" thread. When I heard the M9 for the very first time my initial reaction was that it sounded different than the M8.2 Maybe the delay between the latch releasing and the shutter firing is slightly different in the M9. Now that I'm used to it it doesn't sound so different.

 

Bob.

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there are two clicks

these sounds must represent discrete passages of time

if the second click is the actual shutter then there is a delay

 

that's the way it feels as well when shooting

 

not trying to ruffle any feathers, only to understand

 

Not ruffling any feather here.

It just I don't see this on my M8. Sorry don't have a M9.

M9 may be different, not sure, don't know.

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Could be just yours? Not sure but if this was a wide spread problem there would be more then just your post on the topic.

 

 

well bob is reporting the same thing so there's two of us already

 

more of a widespread (or rather universal) idiosyncracy than a problem IMO

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I've shot with 2 different demo bodies and noticed the double click shutter thing too. Hope you like my tekki speak on this. The double click is upon firing the shutter. There is also the closing of the shutter, but this is separate. Can't quite tell if there is a delay involved in reality, but there does seem to me that these 2 M9's felt less responsive - perhaps only due to me hearing(feeling) the extra click.

 

Can someone with an M9 post any sound file comparisons?

 

Love to here if this is something to do with Soft mode or something.

 

-Ron

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Real world? Below are two shots - 9th and 10th with my new M9 (check jpeg name), precisely to test shutter response (plus, of course my reaction time).

 

My goal in each case was to capture the car in the near lane with its front bumper at the black signpost. Traffic speed was about 35 mph (55 kph). Whadya think - is there a problem with the M9's shutter response? (Question is rhetorical).

 

It's funny how, if I take all the armchair discussions posted on the LUF and frame them for my wall - they never look as good as my pictures.

 

(BTW, haven't had time to put in the firmware upgrade, so don't get excited over any other aspect of the images one way or the other)

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Edited by adan
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Just did a quick audio check on my M9. Regardless od which shutter 'style' I select, I can easily distinguish the 1st and 2nd click (shutter opening), but only at slower shutter speeds. At higher speeds the whole event happens faster than my ears can detect the separation.

 

Just check one of my M8's with discreet firmware added. It does it too but easier to detect.

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Couple of additional points:

 

1) I was using the "soft" release setting, which likely reduces the lag between my finger moving and the exposure PROCESS beginning - but would still leave in place whatever lag may be there between clicks - and yes, I hear a double cl-click at shutter opening.

 

2) Back at the M8 introduction, there was something called the "waterfall" issue if pix were taken as soon as possible after the camera was turned on or woken up. Basically the control processor (as opposed to the image processor) was allowing the shutter to open before the sensor had fully awakened, and the result was a waterfall of vertical streaks down the middle of the image. Leica tweaked the firmware to change the sequence of shutter unlock and sensor power-up to let the sensor wake first.

 

If there does turn out to be excessive lag between unlock and shutter opening (as revealed in pictures), it can likely be reduced by just changing a variable in the firmware.

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The question is: Have we a similar phenomenon with the M8.2? You see, I do have it with my M4 ...

 

Any classical FP shutter has a distinct running time. It is the time from the start of the first curtain to the final stop of the second. When the shutter is in its 'free-running mode', the second curtain starts its chase of the first already before the first one has come to a stop. So we get an exposure time ('speed', meaning the time from the rear edge of the first to the leading edge of the second, passing one point on the neg) that is shorter than the running time. With a classical Barnack type shutter, this running time is on the order of 1/20--1/30th of a second. Longer exposures need a delay mechanism to hold curtain 2 before it is released.

 

Modern metal-blade FP shutters have much shorter running times. This is why the M8-O (for Original) can do a 1/8000th. Also, at all speeds, the second shutter is released by an electronic 'delay mechanism' irrespective of the speed chosen, so there is no fixed running time, only a shortest one -- which is still always longer than the actual. (The actual moving speed of the blades is still constant, to a first aproximation.)

 

Now, the shutters of the M8.2 and the M9 are >slower< than the original M8. This is one of the things we have to sacrifice in order to have a quieter shutter. So we get 'only' 1/4000 and top synch at 1/180. Therefore the M9, and the M8.2, have longer running times than the M8-O. This can mean that we can now hear the separate sounds of the starting and the stopping of the shutter, while on the M8-O they tend to merge into one. (It is possible that the second click is actually the sound of a shutter brake to prevent bounce.)

 

I do not have a M9 yet, and I skipped the 8.2, so I cannot experimentally confirm this hypothesis. But someone out there (or, preferably, several of you) might test it. In science, this is called 'peer review'.

 

The old man from the Barnack Age

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd like to stir this thread up again.

 

Since more people are getting their M9's(me included) we should have more samples to compare.

 

My M9 shutter release is definitely different than my M8.2. It does have 2 clicks upon release AND it does feel like there may be a slight delay in response because of this.

 

I'm hoping this can be addressed via firmware ASAP as the "Decisive Moment" may have passed between the time I press the shutter and the shutter actually fires.

 

I'm going to do some informal testing alongside my M8.2 and I'll try to post audio samples later.

 

Love to hear more opinions on this issue.

 

Best,

Ron

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