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Am I insane?


jdsvt

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So I was getting ready to pull the trigger on an M8.2, spending, as most of you already know, a considerable amount of money, and just when I had it in my head, get the M8.2, convince, ready to go, my son (who is in college) started asking some questions. Is that the newest Leica? uhm, well no, they came out with the M9, but it is 7Gs. (son)yea, ok, I see your point 7Gs is a lot, but 10MP is the same as the Lumix LX-3, which we already have. Don't you want that full frame sensor? (me) Well yea, but it is 7Gs. (son) Yea, but if you get the M8.2, you are going to want the M9 in a couple of years, then probably end up spending more. (me) hmmmm, that is an interesting thought. So here I sit, no M, with my son in my head saying get the M9, am I insane?

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I hear you, but it is the whole "mine is bigger than yours thing". Even though I don't really need the 18MP, the newer full frame sensor and the possibility as saving in JPEG is what I really like. 1 - 1.5 stops, is nice as well. I certainly can play with files if I need to, however, I think I would get more enjoyment if I didn't need to.

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I think there are lots of variables to take into consideration, in addition to the megapixel issue. Here's a link to a thread I started. I don't for a minute presume to think that what works for me will work for you. It's all about individual preferences, shooting style, output considerations (print...and print size?...web?), etc. You may have seen this thread, or other related ones, but I repeat it here just to illustrate some of the variables I considered to be important...for me.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/98241-handled-m9-today-reinforced-decision-stick.html

 

YMMV,

Jeff

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It's not about the MP.

 

I sold a Digilux 2 a couple of years ago; was the worst thing I ever did. Latest is, sometimes, not always best.

 

I am still awaiting the ability to move up to the M8. I am sure the extra £3.5k (above a mint M8), unless you are looking at business use, will make little difference to the joy you get from your images.

 

Get the M8(.2) and take your son to some amazing places with the change.

Edited by Gerard
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Yes that is an excellent post, I was following your reasoning the last couple of days and it helped push me over the edge on the m8/(.2). I've been prepared to buy and M8/(.2) for about 6 mos, but waited, because of the pending announcement 9/9. With the rationalization of many, and logical thinking, the M8/(8.2) won out. The M9 is not logical, it is more emotional, the typical thing you go through in the digital age. Newer CCD is better, all that money and not the newest CCD. When in reality it is more like double the money. And of course there is the typical statement "10Gs for a camera and 1 lens" are you insane?

 

I think there are lots of variables to take into consideration, in addition to the megapixel issue. Here's a link to a thread I started. I don't for a minute presume to think that what works for me will work for you. It's all about individual preferences, shooting style, output considerations (print...and print size?...web?), etc. You may have seen this thread, or other related ones, but I repeat it here just to illustrate some of the variables I considered to be important...for me.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/98241-handled-m9-today-reinforced-decision-stick.html

 

YMMV,

Jeff

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If anything you need to wait 2-3 weeks to 1.5 months. I say this because there are no M9 available right now and once they do really hit the dealer shelves the leftover M8's and the M8.2's will come down in price.

 

At that time you take a good look at the difference in cost to the feature set of the M9.

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Personally, if I am getting a first digital Leica, I would buy the M9 and don't look back. But I am not sure what exactly you are looking for in a camera. If you want to save some money, then go with a used M8/8.2.

 

I bought a used M8 for $2000 in February this year and I am assuming you can find many good deals on the M8 since the M9 is out now. I am keeping my M8 for a little while to see what I want to do with it but I am perfectly content with the photos that comes out of my trusty M8 so there's no real need to upgrade.

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As in race car driving, the best investment is not in equipment, but seat time. Driving, driving, driving.

 

As in photography: photographing, photographing, photographing.

 

Put a seasoned pro in an average racecar put an amateur in a great racecar, and you can be pretty much guarantee the pro will win.

 

The best investment is spending time really looking, really seeing, really photographing. That, by far, will make you a better photographer. Not equipment.

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So I was getting ready to pull the trigger on an M8.2, spending, as most of you already know, a considerable amount of money, and just when I had it in my head, get the M8.2, convince, ready to go, my son (who is in college) started asking some questions. Is that the newest Leica? uhm, well no, they came out with the M9, but it is 7Gs. (son)yea, ok, I see your point 7Gs is a lot, but 10MP is the same as the Lumix LX-3, which we already have. Don't you want that full frame sensor? (me) Well yea, but it is 7Gs. (son) Yea, but if you get the M8.2, you are going to want the M9 in a couple of years, then probably end up spending more. (me) hmmmm, that is an interesting thought. So here I sit, no M, with my son in my head saying get the M9, am I insane?

 

I have both LX3 and M8. There is no comparison, it's like day and night. LX3 is a great camera and it goes with me everywhere, and shines compare to its competition. But it is not even a close match for M8.

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It doesn't sound like you were in the least interested in a FF or higher megapixel M camera.. As others have suggested, if you wait a bit you will get a better deal on a new M8.2. I have an M8 and holding on to it. Unless you are going to print big, and must have a FF camera, there is little reason to spend the extra money. Image quality will not be better with the M9.

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Another thought is to buy the M8.2 now, and wait a few years until the missing features are included in an upcoming M10.

 

The hardened viewing screen, and the window for battery level and image count may return in the future (although likely for additional money). As to FF, if you've got lenses that cover the field of view you want to cover, does it matter that much if the sensor is or isn't FF?

 

The sensor is better, yes, but all we're getting is one stop of higher speed for the same digital noise. Nikon is far, far, beyond that with the D3. So, do you get the M9 now, or wait a few years until Leica catches up with Nikon and Canon in the M10 or M11 or whatever....

 

When I got my M8.2, I was rather pleased with everything about the camera. When the M9 came out, I started thinking of a trade-up, but then I came to my senses. It might be a slightly better camera (depending on what you need) but at what cost?

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Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will do just that for right now, at least wait a 1 week or so and re-evaluate.

 

If anything you need to wait 2-3 weeks to 1.5 months. I say this because there are no M9 available right now and once they do really hit the dealer shelves the leftover M8's and the M8.2's will come down in price.

 

At that time you take a good look at the difference in cost to the feature set of the M9.

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The M8 (&.2) are infrared cameras which the M9 isnt so if you want to take any IR shots get the M8 series.

 

However, the longer you wait the better deal you will get on the M8.2 - is there any hurry in your purchase? Also by waiting you will let the others test the first batch of M9. I advise to go with the heart or you will regret it...

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From what i have been reading, i think the M9 could be tweeked in ways that would make it much more desirable to me and if i can afford the M10 that's what i will get. I recently got the M8 and i love it but i wish i had known what i know now and stuck with my slr, carried on learning with that for a while longer (i am a beginner) and bought the ff M10 later.:rolleyes:

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If you would be happy going with an "entry-level" digital M, from an economic point of view, the M8.2 makes sense. Otherwise, it' s a lot of money to spend on second best....

 

Hi David,

 

I am not quite sure where you get this "Entry level" quote from??

 

The M8/8.2 up until the launch of the M9 were the only M digitals available so not sure how they have suddenly been relegated to entry level cameras, is that factual or just your impression?

 

I think you will find there are a lot of current M8/8.2 users (myself included) who will not upgrade to the M9 in it's current guise as it does not appear to offer a huge advantage over our current cameras other than full frame.

 

The quality of images I am getting from my M8.2 are more than adequate and meet all my current needs, so, if you look at the increase in price proportional to the increase in perceived quality and take into account the removal of the top display and saphire LCD (that for me is a blessing when carrying the camera as it comes into contact with zips etc) plus the fact they have not totally cured the IR issue, I will be one of I suspect from existing posts many who will wait for the M10.

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I am not quite sure where you get this "Entry level" quote from??...I think you will find there are a lot of current M8/8.2 users (myself included) who will not upgrade to the M9 in it's current guise as it does not appear to offer a huge advantage over our current cameras other than full frame.

 

David appears to be the sort of person for whom the status and price of a camera is the important thing, and the actual performance is trivial. If he'd bothered to actually make direct side-by-side comparisons between the cameras, he'd be able to see that in the area covered by both sensors, the M8 has the edge on sharpness and detail rendition at lower ISOs (probably because of the thinner cover glass).

 

If you buy the M9 buyer's line that the new color filters on the camera improve the color rendition, then fine; but I also prefer the colors from the M8. As has been said an infinite number of times on this very forum, the M8 colors are very film-like and subtle in their rendition. I thought the M9 images reminded me of other digital cameras.

 

Still, to the OP: if you have any doubt, buy the M9. It seems from your question that your feeling is that you'd like to have the latest camera, and the bonus is you share in all the excitement.

Plus it really is a nice camera: quieter even than the M8.2 and handling pretty much identically to the M8 - but hopefully without some of the reliability issues. And full-frame with Leica lenses is really special.

 

 

PS: I have to just add - after a few minutes I'm still chuckling to myself at the dismissive description of one of the most expensive cameras in this segment of the market being so quickly relegated to the status of a lowly "entry level" camera. Just two weeks ago the files were being likened to MF. Go figure. Some people are just such suckers for the consumerist mouse-wheel. As I work in advertising, I'm grateful for people like David - they pay my bills! :)

Edited by plasticman
Still laughing.
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