M9 shutter lag?

[gravastar]

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The mirror blackout does not make the image get captured later, it is relevant if you want to shoot a series of images of course, but for a single image, it is irrelevant.

When taking images of people I find the absence of a mirror blackout a very important feature. I can almost always instinctively tell if the subject has blinked or changed their facial expression and re shoot. It's strange, I rarely see a person clearly blink but suspect they have and sure enough when I look at the image later my instinct was correct.

 

Bob.

[mat_mcdermott]

Agree entirely. The lack of mirror blackout, for me at least, has far more to do with capturing the right moment than millisecond differences in shutter lag. You maintain eye contact with the scene and know if you've got the moment.

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[tgray]

Beware of trolls - in this case trolls trying to claim that Leica M9 has defects, which the trolls are not able to clearly identify, which they can in no way document or prove, and which in reality only exist in their own twisted imagination.

 

There were very good reasons to ask kipkeston for documentation.

 

Undocumented statements of the kind quoted above (".. all over the net really") should not be allowed on this Forum, and the moderator should take appropriate steps including possibly also the deletion of such undocumented allegations which can only be made with the purpose of harming Leica - for some reason or other, which I do not understand (envy?).

 

I see no reason at all to continue discussion of this topic on the basis of such undocumented and, thus, unscientific statements.

 

Seriously? I don't usually like to call people out online because it's usually pointless. But people in camera forums seriously need to chill out about documented statements, 'science', and comparisons.

 

I posted the same information earlier. A quick google will show you a lot of info on this matter. The figure of 80ms for the M8 came from Leica if I'm not mistaken. I don't know where the film M numbers came from, but type in 'Leica M shutter lag' and almost every hit will have some mention of 8-12 ms or 10-20ms, etc. All very low.

 

Of course, there's sites like thisthat compile a running list. I don't know if he tests himself or gathers information from the web. The point is that 80ms is a bigger shutter lag than M's traditionally have, and is on the wrong side of the SLR average if you ask me. I mean really, there's no mirror to move out of the way.

 

I would like to add though, for your documenting pleasure, that even though it's out there on the net, doesn't mean it's true. Heck, in REAL science, just because it's in an article doesn't mean it applies to your situation or is even correct.

[diogenis]

How can one measures shutter lag and compare on a dSLR with the later having to move a big mirror, which no matter how much you try you won't be able to move it faster than electronics do? Anyway I remember that Marknorton had something on this on his dissection thread. And saddly, trolls do exist...

[nhabedi]

Again, shutter lag values can be checked easily through the Ed Schwartz Shutter Release Test referred to above.

 

You can use this test to get a rough idea of your shutter lag, but there's no way it can produce results as accurate as some here claim or quote.

[michael_b_elmer]

Seriously? I posted the same information earlier. A quick google will show you a lot of info on this matter.

 

Of course, there's sites like thisthat compile a running list.

 

Your statements are undocumented as well. "A quick Google will show you ..." documents nothing at all. Give us a precise source than we can relate to.

 

The site you are referring to seems to be a commercial site set up for selling a device aimed at certain people with cameras with a certain shutter lag. But the numbers on this site are completely undocumented and probably unreliable, since they may be set up for the purposes of the site which seem only to be to sell as many devices as possible.

 

Give us honest documentation to reliable sources when making factual statements. If you cannot give such documentation your statements have no credibility.

[lct]

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You can use this test to get a rough idea of your shutter lag, but there's no way it can produce results as accurate as some here claim or quote.

Those results come from camera makers AFAIK but when the latters keep silent about shutter lag, a rough idea is better than nothing needless to say. Not so rough BTW. When i tested the M8 i found out 70ms w/o knowing the figure disclosed by Leica. Those interested in the Ed Schwartz Shutter Release Test might wish to do a dozen tests and keep the average to reduce the error margin. FWIW.

[Nikkor AIS]

Perception is reality. At least to to the interested parties.

The feel of the lecia was the one thing that made me buy my first lecia (M3) a couple of weeks ago after over 20 years of shooting all kinds of camera from Nikon to 8x10. I find the feel of the M3 shutter perfect in every way. Shooting with this camera become instinctive for me from the first couple of frames. Now im hooked:p

Now in saying that I also have a couple of D3 and that camera is by far the best SLR feel of any SLR I ever used. I find my timing very close to the M3 but from my perception the M3 is still a little bit better. But the D3 is very close. i really appreciate the quite shutter and the view finder not blacking when the image is made.

If the the M9 has a delay I can see how that would make some pass. There is only one moment. And if you miss it. There is no getting it back.

As far as scientific test being needed . Hmm. Not for me I know what I feel/see. And Im sure other's are the same.

[phovsho]

So, to the folks that are saying they have a problem with shutter lag, have you missed any shoots? Are you noticing in your images that the subject is blinking in the photo etc?

I have no view on whether there is a theoretical lag, just interested in the practical implications.

M

[SJP]

Again, shutter lag values can be checked easily through the Ed Schwartz Shutter Release Test referred to above.

I tried this with my M8 some time ago and I never managed to measure any shutter lag, and yes I did press "go" the arrow was turning

So from a practical point of view the lag is 0 on the M8.

[lct]

I tried this with my M8 some time ago and I never managed to measure any shutter lag, and yes I did press "go" the arrow was turning

So from a practical point of view the lag is 0 on the M8.

Never seen this with any of my cameras so far. How many times did you do the test? Would you mind to try again?

Edited October 7, 2009 by lct

[ulrikft]

I tried this with my M8 some time ago and I never managed to measure any shutter lag, and yes I did press "go" the arrow was turning

So from a practical point of view the lag is 0 on the M8.

 

I have to admit that i did the same, ended up with 20 shots of the 0...

[lct]

I have to admit that i did the same, ended up with 20 shots of the 0...

Never got this so far. There are always variations due to the difficulty to shoot exactly at the same moment. Pity that i don't have an M8 with me here. I'll try with my R-D1 and show what i get.

[lct]

Typical results of the R-D1 in jpeg mode. FWIW.

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[ulrikft]

Never got this so far. There are always variations due to the difficulty to shoot exactly at the same moment. Pity that i don't have an M8 with me here. I'll try with my R-D1 and show what i get.

 

This is the advantage of being young and having video-game-eye-hand coordination

[lct]

At this point you must be a robot.

[dpattinson]

I tried with my M8, once I get used to it I get about the same as lct, but at first I was closer to 0.1

[nhabedi]

Typical results of the R-D1 in jpeg mode. FWIW.

 

I think you must have missed something. The test says to "take the picture just as the arrow is crossing the 0 at the top." This does not mean to try to shoot a picture with the arrow on the zero. You can certainly do that, but that's not the point.

 

If you really pressed the shutter no earlier, then how could the arrow on the zero be a typical result? A 0ms shutter lag? I can't believe that...

 

Anyway, if these results demonstrate anything, then they confirm my earlier point that this test is much too coarse to compare its results with precise numbers like 16ms.

[lct]

...If you really pressed the shutter no earlier, then how could the arrow on the zero be a typical result? A 0ms shutter lag? I can't believe that....

Neither do i. When i got 0 i must have pressed a tiny bit before 0 i guess. Reason why i do a dozen shots and i keep the average generally.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gravastar]

Typical results of the R-D1 in jpeg mode. FWIW.

Judging by those results the camera must have a negative shutter lag . It's very hard not to anticipate the zero crossing point. If you look at the results from this simple experiment (which must have an anticipatory factor as well) the delay between eye and dominant hand coordination depending upon age is: 22yr old 0.16s, 36yr 0.2s and 42yr 0.32s and it can only get worse from there on. So you should be measuring as an absolute minimum delays greater than these figures if the results are to be believed.

 

Bob.

Edited October 7, 2009 by gravastar