kipkeston Posted October 6, 2009 Share #61 Posted October 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The higher-end Nikons are around 35-40ms. The M8 is 80. The film M's are maybe 15-20. I think the M9 is probably about 80 too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Hi kipkeston, Take a look here M9 shutter lag?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
okram Posted October 6, 2009 Share #62 Posted October 6, 2009 A link to that info, please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted October 6, 2009 Share #63 Posted October 6, 2009 Sorry David, didn't mean to suggest you had dismissed anything, I was referring to mat_mcdermott's post. However, I fully understand where he is coming from, and have no problem with his comments. If Mat or anybody does not sense there is a lag, then it essentially does not exist to that person. My point is there is clearly an issue for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted October 6, 2009 Share #64 Posted October 6, 2009 I'm not intending to dismiss out of hand that there might be an issue. I just find it hard to believe that such a slight difference in shutter timing alone results in a feeling of sluggishness -- which I certainly can see contributing to awkwardness in shooting style. In fact, though DSLR shutter lag my statistically be less, the whole system to me feels markedly slower than the M system (digital or film) which is why I prefer the M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipkeston Posted October 6, 2009 Share #65 Posted October 6, 2009 A link to that info, please? It's all over the net really. A quick search of "nikon d3 lag" will get you 37 or 41ms. Leica posted the 80ms M8 figure. Places like puts will quote you about 15-20ms on a film M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_b_elmer Posted October 6, 2009 Share #66 Posted October 6, 2009 It's all over the net really. A quick search of "nikon d3 lag" will get you 37 or 41ms. Leica posted the 80ms M8 figure. Places like puts will quote you about 15-20ms on a film M. Beware of trolls - in this case trolls trying to claim that Leica M9 has defects, which the trolls are not able to clearly identify, which they can in no way document or prove, and which in reality only exist in their own twisted imagination. There were very good reasons to ask kipkeston for documentation. Undocumented statements of the kind quoted above (".. all over the net really") should not be allowed on this Forum, and the moderator should take appropriate steps including possibly also the deletion of such undocumented allegations which can only be made with the purpose of harming Leica - for some reason or other, which I do not understand (envy?). I see no reason at all to continue discussion of this topic on the basis of such undocumented and, thus, unscientific statements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted October 6, 2009 Share #67 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The original Canon 1d = .039 - not bad considering it has to lift the mirror too. There are currently two longish threads running side by side on the same subject - troll driven? I don't think so. Just people discussing one particular aspect of a camera most people seem to be generally very happy with. Edited October 6, 2009 by marcusperkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 6, 2009 Share #68 Posted October 6, 2009 D300: Super fast operation (power-up 13 ms, shutter lag 45 ms, black-out 100 ms) D3: Super fast operation (power-up 12 ms, shutter lag 41 ms, black-out 74 ms) Leica M3: shutter lag 16ms Leica M8: shutter lag: 80ms Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted October 6, 2009 Share #69 Posted October 6, 2009 D300: Super fast operation (power-up 13 ms, shutter lag 45 ms, black-out 100 ms) D3: Super fast operation (power-up 12 ms, shutter lag 41 ms, black-out 74 ms) Leica M3: power-up 0 ms, shutter lag 16 ms, black-out 0 ms Leica M8: shutter lag: 80 ms Doesn't that make the M3 at least "super super fast"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted October 6, 2009 Share #70 Posted October 6, 2009 Leica M3: shutter lag 16ms Leica M8: shutter lag: 80ms And, by the way: 1. Where do these values come from? 2. Do the M4, M6, MP have the same shutter lag? What about the M7? Just curious. I don't think that this matters for me in practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 6, 2009 Share #71 Posted October 6, 2009 And, by the way: 1. Where do these values come from? 2. Do the M4, M6, MP have the same shutter lag? What about the M7? Just curious. I don't think that this matters for me in practice. Nikon numbers: dpreview Leica numbers: wikipedia site Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted October 6, 2009 Share #72 Posted October 6, 2009 Doesn't that make the M3 at least "super super fast"? Interesting that while the shutter lag is less with the Nikons, the mirror blackout effectively puts them in the same level as the M8 -- please no one say that they call tell the difference between 74ms and 80ms -- the shutter may respond more quickly for the first exposure, but you can't see what you're shooting for longer after that. And I'm right there with you nhabedi, I'm not sure the differences between the Nikon's and the M8 make much difference in practice. Both are plenty fast enough for nailing the precise moment you want. It does go to show that film Ms had much bigger advantage in this regard than does the M8 though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted October 6, 2009 Share #73 Posted October 6, 2009 Nikon numbers: dpreviewLeica numbers: wikipedia site I'd feel more comfortable if the numbers came from the same source using the same way of measuring the shutter lag for all four cameras. Does dpreview claim they can measure shutter lag and power-up time with a precision of one ms or did they just use the values Nikon gave them? And who entered the values for the Leicas into Wikipedia? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iShutterbug Posted October 6, 2009 Share #74 Posted October 6, 2009 Fifty years ago I was a sports photographer and prided myself on getting "the peak of the action" shots. I used a IIIf and 4x5 Graphics with between the lens shutters. Initially it takes practice but soon becomes second nature and I didn't think about it. That is until fifteen years ago when I got back into photography and got a DSLR. My pictures didn't look the same and I was disappointed--I was missing the "action," my timing was off. After much experimenting and thinking I realized the problem was shutter lag, my DSLR had to raise that mirror up each shot and that not only slowed down the shutter taking of the picture, and it also introduced a slight movement that affected the sharpness of my pictures at slower shutter speeds. (I know the mirror's not a problem with the rangefinder M's we're talking about here.) But I just want to say I had to modify my timing with a camera that has a greater shutter lag and it's a real adjustment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted October 6, 2009 Share #75 Posted October 6, 2009 Interesting stats. Just tested my M8.2 against my M3 and couldn't detect any difference in shutter lag. Both felt instantaneous. These numbers, if true, should be easily detectable. The difference between 80ms and 15ms is more than the difference between 1/15 sec and 1/60 sec which is very noticeable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2009 Share #76 Posted October 7, 2009 Some people have perhaps an agenda here but it's not a reason to hide one's head in the sand IMHO. Again, shutter lag values can be checked easily through the Ed Schwartz Shutter Release Test referred to above. Why don't M9 users try it and post their results here? There is no shame to have it compared to the 5D2 for instance: 73ms shutter lag and 145ms mirror black-out for the latter. As for the D3, its shutter lag is only 41ms but its 74ms mirror black-out must be compared to the 0ms of the M9 and other rangefinders in this respect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 7, 2009 Share #77 Posted October 7, 2009 The mirror blackout does not make the image get captured later, it is relevant if you want to shoot a series of images of course, but for a single image, it is irrelevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2009 Share #78 Posted October 7, 2009 Try to shoot the decisive moment during a black-out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 7, 2009 Share #79 Posted October 7, 2009 Is not that why you time your _first_ shot to the decisive moment...? And if I snap away at 8fps, I think I have greater chances than 1-2 fps if spray-and-pray is the goal.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2009 Share #80 Posted October 7, 2009 A Leica M is not a machine gun and the decisive moment is the decisive moment. If you cannot see it you cannot shoot and if you can see it but your mirror moves you cannot shoot either, it's as simple like that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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