M9 shutter lag?

[ulrikft]

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You are clearly not familiar with the Nikon D700.

 

True that, as my d700 has a shutterlag not even remotely noticeable...

[lct]

Don't know for the D700 but the D3 doesn't sound slower than my Epsons in raw mode, i.e. about 0.05 sec i would bet. In jpeg mode i don't know.

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[rondeb]

I'm not sure we should call the M9 delay "shutter lag" by definition. The camera reacts very quickly to the shutter depression - if only the first click were the shutter firing!

-Ron

[lars_bergquist]

Lars, I don't think you can mean the FM Nikons. Are you thinking of the early Nikkormats (e.g. the one with the leaf shutter)? I've just been listening to my FM2n alongside other cameras and it takes more like a hundred than a thousand milliseconds for the mirror to rise and the shutter to open. There's a little vibration from the mirror on the way up, but not nearly as much as on the way down after the exposure.

It is possible that the FM2 was better than the FM -- the one I used to scare a Nikon rep with the demonstration I mentioned. And that did really jump!

 

Leaf shutter SLR cameras could jump too, because they too had a moving mirror. But most of them did not have instant mirror return, which of course complicated the engineering.

 

The old man from the Age of the Contaflex

[tgray]

This is all from reading mind you, but from the numbers I've seen, the M8 had a lag of 70-80 milliseconds, which is considerably longer than the 10-30 I've seen published for film Ms. SLRs usually fall on the long side of 50 milliseconds, consumer ones be considerably slower, up to a tenth of a second. I would imagine the Canon 1 series and the top end Nikons are quite close to 50 milliseconds or even faster.

 

So, I know it's not *that* big of a deal, but 20 milliseconds on a film M really does help you get the shot that you think you are getting, something that is a bit more difficult on SLRs. 80 is on the wrong side of things, and is worse than the competition.

Edited October 6, 2009 by tgray

[jonoslack]

I'm not sure we should call the M9 delay "shutter lag" by definition. The camera reacts very quickly to the shutter depression - if only the first click were the shutter firing!

-Ron

 

Put it on 'soft' mode and it is

[giordano]

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It is possible that the FM2 was better than the FM -- the one I used to scare a Nikon rep with the demonstration I mentioned. And that did really jump!

 

Better, perhaps - but not by nearly enough to justify your original claim of "a lag of nearly a second, but also lots of movement during that time". Even a Thornton Pickard did better than that!

[rondeb]

Put it on 'soft' mode and it is

 

I'm not referring to the stop points when pressing the button. It doesn't matter if you're shooting in soft mode, etc., the shutter has a distinct click when you press the button and THEN the shutter fires. It is a delay any way you look at it.

 

-Ron

[Shootist]

Put it on 'soft' mode and it is

 

 

Just how can that be?

The shutter should react in the same way whether the camera is using the soft release (No exposure lock and firing at the second stop of the shutter button) or in normal mode.

[Shootist]

I'm not referring to the stop points when pressing the button. It doesn't matter if you're shooting in soft mode, etc., the shutter has a distinct click when you press the button and THEN the shutter fires. It is a delay any way you look at it.

 

-Ron

 

Ron I don't own a M9 but if this was a wide spread problem I'd expect to see many more posts confirming this behavior.

 

I'm thinking it's a specific camera problem, not effecting all M9's, and should be looked at by the factory.

Could be the system that actually fires the shutter waits to get some type of conformation that the shutter locking device has been unlocked so the shutter can fire without restriction. Until the shutter firing system get that conformation it waits.

[rondeb]

I'm thinking it's a specific camera problem, not effecting all M9's, and should be looked at by the factory.

 

I'd think the same thing, but I've noticed it on 3 different cameras. It's not a huge amount of delay, just more than the M8.2 and more than I would like.

As for more folks posting - I believe there are at least 3 people in this and the other thread who confirm what I am saying. As more M9s get out there, I expect more to join in.

 

Best,

Ron

[Shootist]

I'd think the same thing, but I've noticed it on 3 different cameras. It's not a huge amount of delay, just more than the M8.2 and more than I would like.

As for more folks posting - I believe there are at least 3 people in this and the other thread who confirm what I am saying. As more M9s get out there, I expect more to join in.

 

Best,

Ron

 

 

Agreed. I forget that all M users don't use this or any forum.

Since the currently suggested numbers of M9 out in the public hands stands at about 600-900 cameras there certainly isn't 6-9 hundred new or old users posting on this forum about the M9.

[marcusperkins]

The perception of shutter lag also depends on the type of camera one is familiar with. If your experience is primarily with point and shoot, or less expensive SLR's, the the M8 does indeed seem reasonably quick.

 

But in comparison to professional cameras like Canon's 1 series, or Leica film Ms, the perception (and probably the reality) is that it is slow.

 

Here's a real world test for you:

 

Set the camera to manual then sharply tap the release, there is a distinct lag from the tap to the release. Do the same with the Canon 1, or Leica MP - and it is far more responsive.

 

Forget trying to measure the time, feel the reality.

[lct]

...Forget trying to measure the time, feel the reality.

Reality is not the same for everyone apparently. IMHO time measuring is the only way to compare cameras objectively.

[jaasland]

I'm a Nikon guy, but it never occured to me that the M9 was slow.

 

Obviously, it's not a high speed camera like your typical pro DSLR body (and it shouldn't be) - but I never noticed any shutter lag.

 

My M9 review: Leica M9 - love at first light

 

Jarle

[mat_mcdermott]

The perception of shutter lag also depends on the type of camera one is familiar with. If your experience is primarily with point and shoot, or less expensive SLR's, the the M8 does indeed seem reasonably quick.

 

But in comparison to professional cameras like Canon's 1 series, or Leica film Ms, the perception (and probably the reality) is that it is slow.

 

Here's a real world test for you:

 

Set the camera to manual then sharply tap the release, there is a distinct lag from the tap to the release. Do the same with the Canon 1, or Leica MP - and it is far more responsive.

 

Forget trying to measure the time, feel the reality.

 

I've stayed out of this because I don't yet have an M9, but in regards to the M8 being slow or showing any practical shutter lag. I have to say that after two+ years using one, this is utter nonsense. 99% of the work I do falls into the 'decisive moment' category and I've have not once missed a shot because of shutter lag. Any shot I miss is because of human error rather than electro-mechanical error.

 

Perhaps the throw of the M8 shutter is longer than film Ms (not that I notice it being practically longer than my M6 TTL), but in use it's one that can be adapted to with the simple technique of pressing the shutter halfway down to lock exposure and waiting for that decisive moment. If you're using A mode, you're already doing this in all likelihood.

[rondeb]

I agree Matt. I've never had an issue with my M8 or M8.2. The M9 is....different.

-Ron

[dpattinson]

Just to be clear, have you actually checked to ensure that the gap between press and 'shutter opening' is actually that - and not just a gap between press and 'noise I assume is the shutter opening'?

 

I ask because there are a number of noises made during the shutter firing process and it may well be that the issue is one of perception.

[marcusperkins]

I don't think you can just dismiss this as nonsense. There clearly is an issue here for a number of people.

 

It may well just be a perception - something I clearly explained in an earlier post. However, perceptions are extremely important, and play a major role in how we experience things.

 

For me personally, it 'feels' sluggish, and that's enough to interfere with the way I work. Others will have to draw their own conclusions based on their own experiences.

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[dpattinson]

I don't think you can just dismiss this as nonsense. There clearly is an issue here for a number of people.

 

It may well just be a perception - something I clearly explained in an earlier post. However, perceptions are extremely important, and play a major role in how we experience things.

 

For me personally, it 'feels' sluggish, and that's enough to interfere with the way I work. Others will have to draw their own conclusions based on their own experiences.

 

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the issue is nonsense. I have experienced difficulties with perceived shutter lag myself with the result being I ended up shooting too early.

 

I'm just curious, based on my own past experience as to whether this issue is a perception one or a mechanical one. The former you learn to adapt to, the latter is a little more difficult.